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Thread: Here we go... illegal lasers

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsli_jon View Post
    ^ THIS. Peeps - the Gov won't act against the illegal face-scanning hacksters / Kryodorks / unsafe McJectors... if they don't know about them.. As Dan says, they don't have enough manpower / resources to 'man the radar' / go out and hunt-down all the dweezles.. So, THAT'S WHAT THESE ARE FOR:

    http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/script...ci/contact.cfm

    http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/CriminalInv.../ucm123034.htm ..and, moar 'general info', here: http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/CriminalInv...ns/default.htm

    ..Sure, their 'main-focus' is (understandably..) consumer-drugs / food / x-ray machines, etc, etc.. BUT.. they can - and DO - act on 'complaints' against Lazor-hacks..

    ie: I've had the distinct pleasure of having one of my long-time 'complaints' followed-up with, just a few months back, and it was pretty-thourough follow up.. 'Who', well.. I can't mention any names, but.. his 'initials' are http://epicfx.com/

    ..and, NO - subject does NOT hold a valid 'AS' Variance http://epicfx.com/our-work#prettyPho..._portfolio]/3/ ...And, as far as one can see on Regulations.gov, it appears that their 'base Variance' application was never even approved, so.. double

    ..But, point-is.. if it bothers you (like seeing some skank-club w/ clearly-unsafe / illegal face-scanning..) REPORT IT, PEOPLE.. No, you're not 'narcing' - YOU'RE PROTECTING YOUR OWN INTERESTS.. Yep.. best way to 'keep the Gov off yer back' / out of our Industry.. is to *comply with the Regs*... They're not gonna 'go away' anytime soon, so.. The more that people just 'do it right' / get 'educated' (via being 'turned-in' / reprimanded by CDRH..) the less-likely the Gov is to get all riled-up over some 'incident', and knee-jerk up and pass some blind 'blanket-legislation' that, ie: bans all lasers over 5mW, etc, etc..

    ..As I always trumpet, IMO, if there was just some real 'obvious' enforcement, there would (in-theory..) be less risk-taking... If even ONE Co. / person got the $300K-snot fined out of them / it was highly-publicized / plastered all-over the news, that could help.. (..again, in-theory.. ) ...of course, we'll never stop ALL the idiots / hacks, and, 'ya can't fix stupid'... but.. we gotta *try*..

    .02
    j
    So Jon, How long did it take to get Epic FX investigated?? Looking through the forums, they started being reported over 2 years ago, operate in a state that has it's own laser rules, and have self incriminating images on the their website. If it takes the CDRH that long for an easy to prove case, how long does it take to investigated (find) the individuals operating out of the trunk of a car? Maybe we should just tell the FBI these guys are shining lasers at helicopters.

  2. #42
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    I had an interesting, and somewhat entertaining confrontation tonight at a club I service in Detroit. I showed up to drop off a hazer, and there is a stack of Shinp lasers beaming the bartenders & patrons in the face. I was pretty upset at this site considering that not only was this illegal AND dangerous, but that some one else besides me was providing lasers. The laserist got pretty upset with me when I started running down the reasons why what he was doing was both dangerous & illegal, and he vehemently objected to my accusations. His reasons for why his lasers show was both legal & safe were:

    "I've been doing this for 20 years without any complaints"
    "These lasers aren't powerful enough to need a variance", to which he followed up with
    "These are less than 3 mw" and
    "These are class 16"
    "They are not water cooled"
    "They can't light a match"
    "I'm the lead rigger at Ultra"

    When I shot down all his presumptions, he retaliated with "I'm getting paid a lot to be here, and I'm going to do exactly what I was paid to do". Sigh...I gave up & just asked him not to blind the bartenders.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stiffler View Post
    I had an interesting, and somewhat entertaining confrontation tonight at a club I service in Detroit. I showed up to drop off a hazer, and there is a stack of Shinp lasers beaming the bartenders & patrons in the face. I was pretty upset at this site considering that not only was this illegal AND dangerous, but that some one else besides me was providing lasers. The laserist got pretty upset with me when I started running down the reasons why what he was doing was both dangerous & illegal, and he vehemently objected to my accusations. His reasons for why his lasers show was both legal & safe were:

    "I've been doing this for 20 years without any complaints"
    "These lasers aren't powerful enough to need a variance", to which he followed up with
    "These are less than 3 mw" and
    "These are class 16"
    "They are not water cooled"
    "They can't light a match"
    "I'm the lead rigger at Ultra"

    When I shot down all his presumptions, he retaliated with "I'm getting paid a lot to be here, and I'm going to do exactly what I was paid to do". Sigh...I gave up & just asked him not to blind the bartenders.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20140622_212913.jpg 
Views:	84 
Size:	2.15 MB 
ID:	43683
    That picture is hilarious.

  4. #44
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by Stiffler View Post
    So...How long did it take...they started being reported over 2 years ago..
    Well, good observation, and I'm glad you called it out.. Yes, we (myself, and a couple others they irked with their 'Check out my YukTube video' (spam.. >_<.. One PL-member that lives / operates in AZ, as well..) started submitting those 'trade complaints' a while back.. First, those 'forms' don't go *directly* to the desk of the overworked guy in CDRH.. I am sure they go thru some 'routing', first (ie: if it were a 'food / drug complaint', not gonna get routed to CDRH, etc..) so, it might take some time to even get there..

    ..BUT, if *lots* of complaints come thru, there, and - especially if they're all about the same-Co. / URL, etc - it's likely they'd put more 'weight' into it (vs if there's just 1 or 3 submissions out of X,000...) Of course, I am just 'extrapolating', here, I don't pretend to have any 'insider info', etc.. Just seems logical, tho..

    Second, I actually *did* get contacted-back, by the CDRH, directly, off the 'first' submission.. I don't recall 'how long it was', but.. Ya, it was 'some months'.. Anyhoo, we had a discussion, and - the Officer *had* already contacted 'Epic' (..which, btw, was off a video from their first-site 'epiclasers.com'.. This 'EpicFX' site did not come online till somewhat-recently..) and 'Epic', told the CDRH, that the aud-scan vids on his site? '..were from "a club out of the country".. Yeah,

    ..But, that's really as far as the CDRH could 'take it', at that point.. IF they, however, 'catch someone red-handed' / find a 'smoking gun', that it was something performed in the US (..like 'Epic-Einstein', there, did with the new-site / those gig-vids - clearly in AZ, evidenced by his own vid-titles - including the 'outdoor ones' - with no FAA-contact.. ..well, now, they've got some 'real ammo'..

    ..However, as Dan said.. it's.. a... p r o c e s s.. I mean, the same 'rights' we all cherish, freedom-wise, protect the rights of the bozoz, too, and so.. First, it's a 'W a r n i n g... L e t t e r'.. then, they have to.. wait. And, 'observe'.. If in (??)-months, Epic Bozo still has the vids-up (..or, 'new ones'..) well, then they go to 'Stage II'.. What that-is? <shrug>

    ..But, the Officer assured me that they are *very eager* to 'educate' this guy, seeing - clearly, multi-watt face-shots - when the guy doesn't even (apparently..) have his base-Var approved, let-alone for AS.. Ugh..

    ..So, that's where it sits... Nothing more I can really do.. (..other than a Molotov Cockta... jk.. But, again.. they can - and Do - take action... Best thing, if you see something *really, really* bad? Call 'em, direct.. http://www.photonlexicon.com/wiki/index.php?title=CDRH ..And yes, 'Woody' is the more 'active' Officer.. Dale, there is, iirc, close to retirement... *sigh*..

    fwiw..
    j
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

  5. #45
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    Love the $100 000 price tag, is that 100 000 Zimbabwe Dollars LOL

  6. #46
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    This is why I pay monthly for PL - the learning opportunities!

    For example:
    I did not know that stacking a POS ch@uv3t DMX box on top of an unknown POS DMX laser on top of a roll of yellow tape on top of another unknown POS DMX laser is an approved rigging method for class 16 lasers. Class 15 certainly, BUT, class 16 too! You learn something new everyday.

    I also learned that you do not need invert switches when using DMX boxes, just flip one upside down like the lead rigger from Ultra does it.

    Now I know I have been doing color coding all wrong by using different colors for different lengths or different signals. If you mark all your cables yellow, you can't make any mistakes.
    Eric in New Orleans

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by djeric68 View Post
    This is why I pay monthly for PL - the learning opportunities!

    I also learned that you do not need invert switches when using DMX boxes, just flip one upside down like the lead rigger from Ultra does it.
    I was just at EDC in vegas this weekend and noticed many differentiations from how they had things set up and how the Ultra expert did it. I was glad to show them the "right way"
    Freelance Laser Operator in L.A.
    -


  8. #48
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzAH1X0Qq8g


    So I haven't been to the club I have a few of my lasers installed at in the upstairs area for a few weeks... Come back to see that someone brought in 2 2W RGBs to the downstairs lounge room and was crowdscanning with them. My operator(my business partner) was not informed of this either while he was there.


    I've had conversations with the people who organize this "stage" before about this.
    Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so.
    Bertrand Russell


    Quantum Lasers & Visuals

  9. #49
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    Bradfo69 is offline Pending BST Forum Purchases: $47,127,283.53
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    I reported X-Static. It may fall on deaf ears but, in looking at their product line, it appears they've moved beyond just the winkie blinky DJ lasers:

    http://proxdirect.com/products/browse/category/Lasers Get a load of the Bermuda 3 watt....

    http://proxdirect.com/products/view/...RGB-ILDA-3Watt

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradfo69 View Post
    I reported X-Static. It may fall on deaf ears...
    The Industry at-large Thanks You.

    re: 'deaf ears', then, 'cut to the chase', and Call or email 'Woody', direct... Send him the links..Sure, he can be a bit 'challenging' to speak with (accent, etc..) but.. he'll listen, take notes, and even if he requests that you still 'submit the official-form', (via the linx, above, there..) well, at least he's got a 'specific-awareness', pre-process, and may-even choose to take some 'pre-emptive' action, since - ya - those spazz and flails are clearly not certified.. *zero* about them on Regs.gov, or any of the other DBs, as products, or that 'Co name'..

    ..and even if, say, the 'Corp-entity' was some different-name from the 'public-facing Co' (dba, brand, etc..) ie: ProSkak or whatever... *somewhere* in the FDA-db, you'd need to find the 'publically-advertised Product name', in the application / approvals.. You can't 'apply for Certification', with one Product-name, get approval.. (ie: the ProX ScatCat then go and 'market' as something else (ie: the BananaBoat RGB..) ..So, point is, don't think that these Pjs, are 'actually certified, just under some-name we just can't find' in the db.. If ya can't find *anything* related to the Co, or it's 'public-face' / products, safe-bet it just ain't there..

    ..I'd get in touch w/ Woody, direct..
    fwiw..
    j
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

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