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Thread: RGB Projector noob, with noob questions.

  1. #11
    Bradfo69's Avatar
    Bradfo69 is offline Pending BST Forum Purchases: $47,127,283.53
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    Regrettably, as has been said, $500 is unrealistic. Sorry... it's just the nature of the beast. Lasers and all the related paraphernalia simply aren't cheap. Even a video projector from Staples or Office Max will be more than $500 to do what you want to do. And that's dime a dozen technology.

    Outdoors in public, as has also been said, requires a variance, USA legal equipment, a fairly powerful projector, FAA notification,


    edit... I fell asleep in the middle of typing the above after several LONG days at work. I was going to elaborate more but, you've got the idea. Search around for what type of equipment people have been using for their outdoor shows and I think you'll find you need to add as many as 2 zeros following that "500". You need more power outdoors than in. I was fascinated (and discouraged) when I took what I thought was a bright $9,000 3 watt RGB and shined in on the building on the other side of our parking lot. I'll say it's 200 feet away and the natural divergence over that distance made everything huge and was hardly bright enough to be of much interest.

    Being outdoors just simply takes more power... period. Unless you have a particularly dark night and shoot out all the surrounding streetlamps with a BB gun. If you're in an area populated enough to have a tall building to display laser graphics, then you've got and ambient light problem...period. I've thought a bit about doing something similar to what you want to do and have figured that I needed something close to a laserscope to pull it off.
    Last edited by Bradfo69; 06-19-2014 at 02:19.

  2. #12
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    I'd surf around for a used/refirb DLP projector. Safe, legal, and easy.

    You can even buy a diode-less Ca$io projector for under $50, and replace 10 of the 445nm diodes.

    Create an image file of your logo on a black background and you're done.

    Keep in mind this forum is full of professional people. I'm sure the government reads it too. No one here is going to tell you how to do it illegally.
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  3. #13
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    I have used the LK-PD2 (which I think is very similar to the REKE) to do backyard lasershows, and it has worked ok. I was projecting onto a tan dropcloth from about 50 feet away. I thought the brightness was ok. I have used the same projector (same distance) on the side of a dark red barn at night, and it is very underwhelming. Also, the stock scanners are not that great. The projector meters out at about 550mW and cost me around $520. Quickshow with FB3 was about $500.

    So you're looking at at least $1000 just to get a 7 color toy. And I got bored with mine pretty quick.

    Now look at something like the Pluto II, and you can get 2 watts of full color with decent scanners for about $2k. I just got one, and it is almost too bright to use inside. This will probably be all I ever need for backyard shows.

    So I think at a minimum you should increase your budget by 5x.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bungy View Post
    Quickshow with FB3 was about $500.

    So you're looking at at least $1000 just to get a 7 color toy.
    He doesnt need Quickshow. He can get someone to create a trace of his logo, and text and create an ILDA file for him. I saw one guy that was offering this service for free. There is a tutorial on LPF on how to do it. Then he could use free projection software to project the logo. He'll still need a DAC tho.
    “Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.” ― Bernard M. Baruch

    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    ― Benjamin Franklin; stairwell plaque in the Statue of Liberty

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    Quote Originally Posted by TechJunkie View Post
    He doesnt need Quickshow. He can get someone to create a trace of his logo, and text and create an ILDA file for him. I saw one guy that was offering this service for free. There is a tutorial on LPF on how to do it. Then he could use free projection software to project the logo. He'll still need a DAC tho.
    It all comes down to what quality he wants on the logo. I have still not seen a good buildt in SD solution able to reproduce a dicent quality logo. Of course the complexity of the logo matters, but still....

    I certainly would not have my company logo projected in public heavy flickering, rounded corners and lines not meeting where they are supposed to. Better use a standard video projector then.

    ...but thats me....
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    You can use Inkscape (free) or (if you can obtain it) Adobe Illustrator. Both can convert raster images to dxf. Then you need to convert this to ilda. Ild Sos can do that, but if you want free you need Laserboy. This way you don't need a DAC, just a projector capable of reading an SD card. The Reke might be bright enough, if you can get the surroundings completely dark. Don't take my word for it though.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Datsurb View Post
    It all comes down to what quality he wants on the logo. I have still not seen a good buildt in SD solution able to reproduce a dicent quality logo. Of course the complexity of the logo matters, but still....

    I certainly would not have my company logo projected in public heavy flickering, rounded corners and lines not meeting where they are supposed to. Better use a standard video projector then.

    ...but thats me....
    I agree completely. I'm just saying he does have options with a $500 budget. If it was me I'd spare no expense to make my logo as attractive as possible. Your logo represents your company. A shaky logo demonstrates low quality, which in turn reflects on your companie's reputation.
    “Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.” ― Bernard M. Baruch

    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    ― Benjamin Franklin; stairwell plaque in the Statue of Liberty

    "And so shines a good deed in a weary world." - Willy Wonka

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  8. #18
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    Laser Warning

    Hi noob (..with noob questions... Welcome to PL...

    ..However, there's just no way for me, as a 'first-reply' to ya, to not-sound like a * in telling you this, and, I know others have already said this, but, Sorry.. gotta tell ya:

    Quote Originally Posted by hevnsnt View Post
    ....As far as legalities go, that is not an issue. We have the building owners permission.
    Umm, that, Friend, is the *first and foremost* 'issue', here... Unless the 'building owner' holds a valid CDRH Variance for performing laser-shows, on his building - and with Certified gear - and, he is also one of the airspace-specialists that works for the Central-Region ATC of the FAA, there in KC... his 'permission' doesn't amount to a hill of beans, as-to this endeavor - Yep - being totally-illegal for you, even-if 'not-for-profit'.. SO PLEASE DON'T DO IT. Why?

    ..In short, When it comes to lasers - pointers and/or projectors - Outdoors.. just don't F with the FAA. It could yield bad-results for everyone, not to mention it's usually not too-pleasant having an AR-15 shoved in your face from a Swat-dude, ya dig?.. There are (..increasingly-enforced..) Regulations governing public-performances, here in the US, and *especially* for Outdoor-efforts - you've *got* to follow the rules.. Here's a 'summary' of what's required:

    http://www.fda.gov/Radiation-Emittin.../ucm118907.htm ..and the 'why's / wherefores' http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Medical.../UCM119257.pdf

    ..And, finally (..from our 'PL Laser-Wiki'..) the FAA's requirements - Yes, even-if 'terminated' on a building... http://www.photonlexicon.com/wiki/index.php?title=FAA

    Quote Originally Posted by hevnsnt View Post
    Can anyone help point me in the direction I need to go?
    a) Hire a Varianced Professional, who can ensure the FAA is properly-notified, etc.. Meanwhile, you can ask them 'how this all works', and/or to be an 'observer', and you can get more info / guidance, here... If you *insist* that you absolutely must 'DIY', well then b) 'see above'...

    Sorry to sound like an *, but.. Hope this helps you get on the right-track, right from the start..
    cheeers..
    j
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

  9. #19
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    I'd start with the fact that (dpending on the size of the Logo) you need 2-3 watts of green for every streetlight within 500-1000 feet plus two watts more just to get you started, if and only if the building is white or very light tan. If its any color of brick, all bets are off. If any of the street lights are LED or Metal Halide (Bright White) try before you buy.

    A Green DPSS laser at 532 is near the peak of the dark adapted eye sensitivity. It is also cheaper per Watt then RGB by a country mile.

    More laserists get busted for local sign ordnances then ever get busted by FAA. But you do need the permit, because if a beam is un-terminated and goes off into airspace, the variance and FAA report is a "Get out of jail free card", otherwise your looking at severe fines.

    I have a friend that put a logo on a club, the other club owner decided this was unfair, and called the city. Tucson now considers laser display, even artistic laser display, as another type of illegal electronic advertising sign. So even with building owner permission, you can run seriously afoul of sign ordinances. The building owner gets the ticket, not you. You can also, in some towns, hit issues with distracted motorists laws.

    Our local amusement park bought several 500 mW RGB waterproof outdoor projectors, and had to darken the flood lights about 700 feet either side of the midway, for a few three foot by three foot abstract images on the side of a brick building. They had to switch to abstracts, ie swirls and stars, because the low cost Galvo scanners could not reproduce the park's simple logo. They also painted the façade white above the street level. It looks really cool from the passing aerial tram, but it was not what they intended to do. In daylight the white paint looks odd on the building.

    They have low power laser effects elsewhere in the park, ie Blisslights, but they really had to re-engineer or turn off large parts of the Midway lighting to make the little RGB projectors effective. It looks OK, but they had the advantage of controlling the lighting for the whole four lane pedestrian street.

    Consider the alternative, having a projection Gobo made for a moving light fixture plus a dichroic filter, or get a Laserist out there to try before you buy. The Gobo may have "throw" issues, depending on the quality of the moving light or projector used. At least you can rent a moving light. Another option is a roll of holographic film on the glass windows that allows a normal VIDEO projector to be used. I see a lot of that material in Pittsburgh.

    When laser shows were at their peak in the 80's and 90s, Metal Halide lighting was scarce and dim mercury vapor lights were the norm. As "white" and Sodium arc lights proliferated, the power required to do a laser show greatly increased.

    I believe there are two or three hobby laserists in Kansas City, I'd start there.

    At all costs keep the laser light away direct shots into people's eyes, the rule in the US is three meters up from ground level.

    Rental is a option for around 2K + shipping if you have a varience. There is the whole "unattended operation" rule to contend with, as well.

    Steve
    Last edited by mixedgas; 06-21-2014 at 08:47.
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