520nm full diode laser

[edison]

The biggest problem is that the manufactures in lasershowbussiness don,t stick to an exclusive dealer policy and retail prices.

Any person can buy directly from a manufacturer and they get the same price as a dealer. Try buying a battery drill directly from makita, that won,t work since they forward your request to the nearest local dealer. Kvant is showing retailprices but no one is paying that since we all know that when you contact them you get a dealerprice. In other words they screw their dealer. Retailprices are not the real prices that they are selling their modules and projectors for and we all know that.

To attract people that are serious in buying a system instead buying it only when its dirt cheap Able never advertise and i totally agree with that. If your seriously looking at this moment and comparing systems contacting them and request for more info is the way to go. The biggest mistake in laserbussiness is having no exclusive local dealers. Sure the system you buy will be more expencive but you get something back and that is service and warrenty locally so you don,t need to ship it back to china. You can also borrow a system during the time the other one is in repair. That is how it should be but unfurtunally we can,t go back in time. Unless the whole laserbussiness is changing in one strike to have dealers it will stay like it is. Companies like OPT are selling the cheapest systems at the lowest quallity and that is what all others are up against. They don,t have dealers other then a few people reselling their stuff with no warrenty and no service. Its ridiculeus that someone that buys a projector has to send it back all the way to china or have to do the repair himself while its a few months old. But then again everyone wants spend as little as possible as the low end market does only things for a "hobby". That approach is a dead end road. Unless people start to see things as a bussiness nothing will change. There is no money to spend because not enough money is coming in. Building yourself has also gone dead since Companies like OPT do things so cheap that its not worth doing it yourself. Well it is worth it since you end up with a better beamquallity if you buy good quality modules but the majority doesn,t even know what differgence is. This is not adressed to the people on PL here but the average schoolguy that see,s a local lasershow and want to buy a system the next morning. He googles and find laserworld and because it looks good and is low priced. He is smart and contacts laserworld directly to pass the dealer and so paying less. He decides to buy 2 and laserworld asks if he wants to be a dealer and that is why you see so many dealers. Dealerships and retailprices what a joke

[White-Light]

Well I don't know about manufacturers selling to the public at trade prices, certainly not many I've come across.

However, if a manufacturer decides to have a time limited sale, I can't see the harm in that. Yes it make take some sales away from dealerships, but if its to clear stock and it's for a short time only eg a few days, a week etc, then the overall effect of a once or twice a year sale is quite small.

It's as I said above Edison, if your lasers are say £4K and X brand are £3K, then I don't see the harm in advertising that. At the end of the day, people are going to make their own decision as to whether they want to pay £3K for X brand, or maybe pay £4K for yours and get something better.

All hiding prices does is drive a certain percentage of customers away straight away, as they won't deal with you without open pricing, so that's already lost you business, and with those that will request prices, there's nothing to stop then requesting prices from elsewhere anyway and still making the comparison. So it serves no real purpose other than to lose you custom, make it awkward for customers to make the decision, and make people suspicious of your business practices if you're not prepared to openly advertise your pricing.

In any case, within the EU, retail prices are actually Suggested Retail Prices as it's illegal under European Competition Law for a manufacturer to fix the final price or require a dealer to sell at a specific price, so most dealership prices vary anyway.

[edison]

I agree if its with clearing stock but in most branches the manufactures do not sell directly to a private person. Even if the retail prices are suggested ones Kvant , laserworld and others should support their dealers instead of selling their products directly to a private person.

In other branches the manufacturers all direct you to a dealer and those also deal with repairs and other service. As for comparing, comparing on Price is like comparing Apples and pears. Brand X looks allot cheaper on paper but brand Y can be 10x better in quallity and to know the differences in quallity you have to talk with the seller. Advertising with the price will only people steer away as they draw the usual conclusion that the more expencive one is just more profit for the seller.

When you don,t know the price and request it you get additional info that shows what you get for that 1000+. In the low end market people intend to see things as some sort of hobby where they think they need to ask low money for what they are doing. Instead you have to convince the customer that you work with top quallity equipment and not something build in a shed. But things will not change unless the manufacturers will change their game and that will not happen in lasershow bussiness. They will continue to sell directly at dealersprices to anyone who they can make a buck on. You see that kvant is going the chinese way. They try to compete with companies like eightonlight and eventually OPT and indirectly with laserworld. They used to be a TOP brand but the decline rapidly because they go where the low end market is going. Until 5 watt its totally dominated by OPT, Laserworld (opt re-branded) and Eightonlight. Even HB is now under the wings of Laserworld and that process will continue until their are 2 big companies
left.


I hardly sell anything based on price untill the buyer contacts me and i explain the differences between me and others. If you contact Able you will quickly find out why this is the best choice when it comes to china manufactured projectors. Its better then any other china brand. Its more expencive because they use Arctos modules in them and so that reflects in the price. The average guy looks at both advertisements and he doesn,t know what divergence is or measured in. A laserworld in 1.5 mrd and the able shows 1 mrd angle. He will buy the eightonlight because he didn,t contact able or did some research as the price is already in his mind.......

[edison]

in a nutshell;

Lowend market : comparising on price and should be as low as possible since i charge way to less for the show but i need to go below the price of my other Lem friend. Divergence, reliablillity who cares as long as its cheap. When it break down, oh well i will repair it myself and if lose the show next week but that doesn,t matter its only a "hobby"

Highend market: Price is hardly an issue. As long as it has the lowest divergence its reliable in usage. When it breaks down it will be repaired with our without a temperary replacement since the show most go on because its a bussiness

[JD3]

in a nutshell;

Lowend market : comparising on price and should be as low as possible since i charge way to less for the show but i need to go below the price of my other Lem friend. Divergence, reliablillity who cares as long as its cheap. When it break down, oh well i will repair it myself and if lose the show next week but that doesn,t matter its only a "hobby"

Highend market: Price is hardly an issue. As long as it has the lowest divergence its reliable in usage. When it breaks down it will be repaired with our without a temperary replacement since the show most go on because its a bussiness

i fall inbetween this lol. my day job allows me to "loose" money. Ive sunk WAY more money into this than i have gotten back. Even though its slowly coming back. I work offshore for a good 8-9 months out of the year, so i get very little laser play time anymore.
When im in town im completely booked though.

[edison]

Yes, the definition of a hobby to me is that it cost money all the time. As soon as you need to make money to finance the "hobby" its not a hobby anymore but a small bussiness even if its next to a daily job. There is a bussiness side to it when doing lasershows. Doing lasershows is not a hobby and it never will be. The guys who continue to do things as a hobby and keep loosing will not stay arround for allong time that,s for sure unless they keep pouring money into that hobby......

[absolom7691]

The guys who continue to do things as a hobby and keep loosing will not stay arround for allong time that,s for sure unless they keep pouring money into that hobby......

For the first time, in the history of "ever", I completely agree with you. I have been doing lasers for over 20 years and have done 0 commercial shows. This hobby has cost me more (cumulative) than a down on a decent house. And I still have a shopping list!

As for the definition of hobby, I would add "passion" to it too. Whatever the hobby is, it is always bloody expensive though!

[edison]

It is damn expencive. But it also depends on how you look at things. If you buy good quallity stuff you still can build something for half the price or even more when buying a european brand like rgblasersystems or Kvant. But if you try to beat the price of an eightonlight or OPT forget it. The majority wants to do shows instead of building systems so when you want to do shows and spend at first 4 months to build a few projectors the excitement is half gone. I,m in the position to build easily my own system but even i rather buy one for my rentals since its not even worth the effort. Buy an Able and you win time and have a decent quality system that can be used right away. I would advise only to build a system when someone has the time and want to reach the level of an Arctos or RGBlasersystems quallity system. If you build something purely for fun and use it in a bedroom or maybe in the local communtiy center for once i would advice to build a nice single mode low power system. Then you have the quallity of what the bigger companies have in high power but that is not what you need anyway. Maybe build 2 small heatsink ones with a maximum of 1.5 watt RGB. Then its still fun and its affordable. I have other plans nowadays but that,s because i do things for a living. Choices are being made based on how the bussiness is going. If you do things for a hobby you can make a decision to do something for fun because you get a monthly paycheck anyway. If i make a choice its a choice of how i move forward and what is the best to invest in and that is totally different. It would be great to build something that i would like to have but that won,t pay the bills. But whenever i get new metalparts from the metalshop to build the newest module its like christmass and i know this is the way to go. If i would do lasershow only and want to move forward as quick as possible i would buy an Able that,s for sure

[JD3]

refer to the quote in my signature

[edison]

haha yes well partially i agree except for the work part. I don,t think the wive agree,s when i spend 70 hours on non payed passion/hobby