Looking for someone who can create a basic light show for us

[egghead27]

Hi Guys,
Hopefully this is the correct forum
We have recently purchased a laser and want to put together a basic promo show to project onto a wall at night near our work. Its basically for marketing purposes to be shown for a couple of hours each night

We received some pretty poor software with it and have looked at trying to create our own and then decided it might be easier to pay someone to do the basic stuff so that we can change it down the track

Is anyone interested ?
I suspect its only an hour or two's work for someone who knows what they are doing

We can supply the logo to be converted to an appropriate format and then its basically something like


show logo for 5 secs
show text 1 for secs
show logo for 5 secs
show text 2 for 5 secs
show logo for 5 secs
show text 3 for 5 secs
show logo for 5 secs
show text 3 for 5 secs
repeat

maybe adjust the times and fade in/out as appropriate

Happy to pay a couple of hundred in aussie dollars for a product that works with our gear and quick turnaround

I suspect it will need to be in .ild format and some basic instructions on how to make changes in the software we have would be useful (can supply the name later when I am near the device, its pretty crappy)

Please reply back if anyone is interested , we can pay via paypal if overseas or EFT in Australia

Regards

Kurt

[Datsurb]

To do this, some more information is needed.
1. What type of laser. (Specifications would be nice) and a link to see what kind of hardware we are dealing with)
2. I`m not shure if there are any laws and regulations in Australia regarding outdoor public use of lasers, but there probably are, and you will need to do there proper paperworks.
3. Post an example of the logo you want to use. The complexity of the logo will quickly tell us ig it is possible to do with your laser.

[egghead27]

Thanks for the reply, see responses inline below:


To do this, some more information is needed.
1. What type of laser. (Specifications would be nice) and a link to see what kind of hardware we are dealing with)


Its basically a blue 1W laser from the nice people in China , 30k scanner

similar to this one
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/191112648...84.m1439.l2649

Model No + Description disco and DJ laser - DMX, PC, Auto Control
Operation: Auto Run, Sound Active, DMX, PC Software (not included)
Master Slave (multi Units)
Features with Pattern Select, Zoom, Horizontal and Vertical Movement
Inbuilt Patterns
In-built SD Card - Up to 20 Folders
Using Software Whatever you want
30Kpps @ 5degree Scanner Set
Laser Power: 1000mW
Laser Colour: Blue (455nm),
Laser Diode Diode pumped solid-state laser ( DPSS )
Lifetime >5000 hours
Laser Class 4
Play Mode Sound control, Auto, DMX512 (20 channels ), ILDA PC
Patterns > 54 laser patterns

2. I`m not shure if there are any laws and regulations in Australia regarding outdoor public use of lasers, but there probably are, and you will need to do there proper paperworks.

Thanks , we are aware of this


3. Post an example of the logo you want to use. The complexity of the logo will quickly tell us ig it is possible to do with your laser.

the logo is basically the griffin in the circle at the top of http://www.prodigymma.com.au/

we have the logo as an illustrator or similar file and only require the outline

the software we have is ishow and apparently many people don't like it, I am happy to take advice on something else if its fairly easy to use. Our requirements are modest so we cannot justify $600 for pangolin or similiar

the wall we are displaying on is a standard brick wall about 20m away and we aim to use a 5m x 5m projection (or thereabouts)

please let me know if you need more info

Regards

Kurt

[Datsurb]

Thanks for reply.

From what i have learned, and experienced, this is more or less an impossible case within your budget. I will try to explain why.

1. The specifications of the laser to low to make a useful result. At 20 meter the 5X5 meter logo will require more than the scannerset is made for. 30K@5`will not be enough. (A normal set of 30K scanners cost more than the projector all togheter).
2. The logo that you want to project contains way to much detail to be handeled by this projector without extreme flickering. It will look more like a strobelight than a laserprojected logo. This is because of the limited speed of the Scanners.
3. The build in SDcard player, are usually really bad of showing graphics. I have a couple, and none are good enough to do anything exept beams.
4. You will need software and a DAC for your project. ISHOW does not meet the requirements.


Spaghetti software with a Riya Lite DAK could be a cheaper alternative than QS, capable of doing someting in the right direction. You still would have someone to make you an ILDA of your logo. A lot of PL members have ILDA SOS capable of this. I dont have this piece of software yet.

[norty303]

I would have to agree with datsurb, especially on the scanner quality front. The 'standard' is usually provided as kpps at 8 degrees, based on the ILDa test frame. The fact they are saying its at 5 degrees says to me they are not even nearly 'proper' 30k scanners. Add in a reasonably complex pattern and you are going to have problems.

What exactly is the nature of your business? I would imagine if its lighting/laser production sort of thing, a bad animation may not be the sort of advert you're looking for.

[egghead27]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for your replies

Its for a martial arts gym so it doesn't need to be super high quality, its simply to display a big bright flickering thing on a wall so that people know the gym is there.

We are on a reasonably busy road and just want to project the images for a couple of hours each night to generate a bit of awareness rather than wow them with our laser skills (we have lightsabers for that

We can simplify the logo or use something else as a picture. Even text is probably sufficient as I doubt it will be to long before someone complains about it and we have to remove it.
The device did come with a DAC, not sure of brand

I downloaded a demo copy of the spaghetti software yesterday however I couldnt see and obvious way to use it, I am not sure if the demo version is functional or simply shows the user interface

I have used illustrator, etc before so I didnt think the learning curve with Ishow would be that bad however it is fairly painful.

Basically I am after someone who can get us started as the laser is currently sitting in a box doing nothing and I don't have a heap of time to spare learning software at the moment.

We are aware its a cheap nasty low quality laser however it should at least project a basic image, until we get some material to work with any comments as to its suitability are fairly moot.

Is anyone interested in doing the paid work to create the show and provide some basic guidance on getting it working ?

Regards

Kurt

[Datsurb]

If you have got Ishow, you have got the Ishow DAC. For that to work you need a PC with a 32bit OS. The drivers for the DAC is for 32bit ONLY.
Spaghetti can use the Ishow DAC. (And a bunch of others as well) Using e.g. Riya DAC instead of the ISHOW will improve the quality by miles. The one good ting about the ISHOW software is the ILDA library with a great number of images and animations.

PM me a dicent quality example of your logo, and I will look at a way of making it into ILDA format.
I guess the text you are interessted in are theese:

We offer the best trainers
We offer the best facilities
We offer the best learning environment
Start training with us today

If not correct, please OM me the correct text

There are no way you can display all the text at once, but a scrolltext might be used. (word by word)

I can then put togheter a Spaghettishow for you, with absolutely NO GUARANTY of satisfaction. I don`t use Ishow as i did not understand one bit of the software, so it have to be either Spaghetti or Quickshow.

[White-Light]

Text is probably the most taxing thing you can display this side of a very very complex graphic.

You'll either need a low point count on the letters which means they'll be squiggly and not rounded, or very few letters on display at any one time. As Datsurb says, scrolling text is the way to go, but even then you might struggle to display much in one go.

My advice would be put up the graphics you want to use for Datsurb or someone to look at. That way they can do a test conversion and see how it displays at a low setting on their pc / laser eg 12-15kps (@8 degrees).

They could even send you a single one over to try.

That will give a better idea of whether or not you're going to achieve what you want to achieve.

I can't see why in principle you can't get something out. Just don't expect smooth rounded text or photoshop quality graphics.

What you're likely to get is more this:

- than this -

Good luck and get those graphics up (or at least one - you probably want the most complex one up, but as you may not be able to judge, it might be safer to post everything you want to display up so when Datsurb looks at it he can choose the one that's going to be hardest as a test subject).

[mixedgas]

I can try to do the work for you, I have some specialized text software for low end galvos.
The trick is to send you some test frames and see if you can read them.
You might have to have one of the kids you teach show you how to edit the display command text file.

Your stuck in with a projector, you might as well use it.

Attached are a few files, MartianDemoA is a type 0 ILDA file, MartianDemoB is a type 1 ILDA File.. I doubt if you can use the type 1, but you can try. That lets us figure out how your projector handles file types. Most can't load a ILDA type 4 or 5 modern file.

The rest are text in various fonts and two sizes, saved as type zero. Please tell me which font looks best with your scanners, after adjusting the command file on your projector. Note that the text scrolls to allow the low bandwidth scanner to handle the extra load.4

The text streams are broken into 250 or more individual frames that are flashed up in sequence to create your scrolling message.

The logo I'd have to do by hand, that comes later.

If this is like most Asian SD card projectors:
The command display file (A simple text file) will have the name of the animation to show, the speed at which to scan it, and the frames per second. Scan speed is the refresh rate for a individual frame. Scanners have some variability from model to model, so this number gets changed to the value that shows the least flicker and best smoothness in the image. If the refresh rate is too high, its like asking a Volkswagon to be a Porsche, something will distort.

The speed will probably not be in the industry standard KiloPointsPerSecond (PPS) but will be some relative number.
You'll have to play with the numbers, rebooting/restarting the projector each time you edit the SD card contents.

----------------------------to execute:-------------------------------------------
1.Stick the supplied SD card in your laptop.

2.Copy the command display file and included factory artwork frames in a new directory elsewhere on the computer so you have a backup.(Or get a new SD Card). New SD cards must be formatted the same as the old one, there are different formats. Many people find only a few types and sizes of SD card work.

3.The microcontroller in the projector can only open one command file, so remember what it is named. That name is what its always looking for, and there is only one name that will work.

.Resave the ILDA files I posted here on the SD card with short, eight character names.

5. Open the command text file using something simple like notepad. Edit as needed to stick my files in.

6. Save the text file on the SD card.

If low level programming is not in your skill set:
Generally there will be a twelve year old taking your classes that can figure out how to do (and optimize the two speeds) that faster then any ten adults including me.
Enlist her or his help if needed.

If that does not work, post the command file here as a attachment or paste it into a post.

If it starts to work, post pictures here or on Youtube so we can "tune" the animations.


---------------------------------------------About "DACs"------------------------------------------------

Right now we're trying to use the unit's internal "Digital to Analog Converter". A few years ago hobbyists started referring to "Controllers" as DACs, adding to the confusion on the internet. The DAC chip is the output chip in the controller, so the abbreviation stuck. External 12-16 bit controllers will always improve things over the unit's internal 8 or 10 bit controller.

The Galvanometer Scanners in the projector take an analog voltage and change it to mechanical motion. Its like writing in Cursive by hand, only much, much, faster. Something has to take the digital ILDA file and convert it to a voltage, hence the "DAC".

Forgive me if all this is confusing, but I do systems engineering for a living. I'm trying to break down 20 years of work into simple terms.

Welcome to the strange but fun world of "Vector Graphics". As controllers go, your machine has a "White Belt" and is thus a bit confusing to use.
Most people who buy those use them as "Eye Candy" and never change the files. Kudos to you for trying for "Yellow Belt".


Steve

[egghead27]

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the replies, I have sent a couple of links to Datsurb and are available here

http://cdn.prodigymma.com.au/tmp/pro..._logo_final.ai
http://cdn.prodigymma.com.au/tmp/pro...logo_final.jpg
http://cdn.prodigymma.com.au/tmp/pro...logo_final.pdf
http://cdn.prodigymma.com.au/tmp/pro...logo_final.png

I am conscious of text size and timing and we basically want people to be able to be interested in the show fairly quickly, is the following possible as a high level layout

logo
Prodigy MMA
logo
BJJ training
MMA training
logo
Fitness boxing
Thai boxing

maybe show each one for about 3-5 seconds and we can drop word training off each one if it makes it hard to read
I don't know if lasers have the concept of fade in/out ? or perhaps a little bit of blank space in the middle

or would the following work a bit better
Logo
scrolling text - prodigy MMA pause MMA pause BJJ pause etc (basically the same as above but scrolling)

As a general question, a couple of people have mentioned using spaghetti to create the shows in , as this is $90 it seems an OK option to me , would others recommend it ?

In addition do we actually require the dac or can we simply write the .ild file to the sd card ?
Its a little bit unclear to me the role of the DAC if you can simply write to the SD card, or am I missing something ?

Thanks for reading

Regards

Kurt