News Show

[DZ]

where is LC-ADAT in Beyond? i can't find it.

When on the main grid page, click the edit drop down menu and you should see LC-ADAT near the bottom of the list.

Also, what version are you running? I'm at 629

[White-Light]

I already feel bad about derailing this thread further but oh well... damage has been done!

I was going to keep out, but I guess you have that right.

..and although the topic went off, look on the bright side. The OP still has his shows in the 1st post with links and look at all the extra number of views he received and presumably downloads he got as a result of the tangent.

So he might not seem like a winner, but in a round about way, he actually could be with far more views and downloads than he might otherwise have received.

I say once again to Dillbert, thanks for the shows.

There are a whole lot more who don't and who just don't have this option.

So buy Pangolin!

You get what you pay for. You don't buy a Ford Focus and then moan it hasn't got Ferrari seats. If you want to share the Ferrari experience with your friends, you buy a Ferrari.

If you want premium content, you buy Pangolin.

If you want to share the Pangolin experience, your friends get Pangolin and you share it amongst you. Just as you do with other premium packages.

If you want to sell your shows, then with Pangolin you have the largest user base of any laser software in the world to sell to, plus you can copy protect your shows either to individual DAC hardware making it a 1 user licence and thus stopping dead all illegal copying / distribution / use on any other DAC even if Pangolin, or to the world by universal copy protection that's allows use on any Pangolin system but cannot be copied. If ILDA export existed, then you'd lose far more money through illegal copying and distribution than you would through being only able to distribute to the Pangolin user base.

If you can't afford Pangolin, fair enough, but then don't moan that you can't experience the premium content be that supplied or created. Accept that you have to make do with what you can afford.

As for QS mentioned above, QS was never intended to compete with LSX. QS was always intended as an easy to use Home User / Mobile DJ package that put quite advanced looking effects that were 1 click executable at your finger tips for not very much money. It was never supposed to be a be all and end all. It was supposed to be quick, easy, simple.

Beyond is where the money shot lies and abstracts aside, there's no other package that even comes close overall that I've seen to what Beyond now offers. Some may be better in distinct areas eg Pangolin's own Live Pro still has the edge for live play, but nothing is as comprehensive overall to my knowledge.

Hehe... Can I change that to "I've done things in LSX I've never seen done in Beyond"? That's more accurate :P

See above.

There's a lot in Beyond that cannot be found in any other programme. The Universe is a prime example to name but one aspect.

[VibrationsOfDoom]

>>..and although the topic went off, look on the bright side. The OP still has his shows in the 1st post with links and look at all the extra number of views he received and presumably >>downloads he got as a result of the tangent.

And I'm happy for that guy... Sadly, when I post up in this forum, sometimes I see like 152 views, and no one responds... I've made available lots of things for free in here, .ild files, a complete show (sadly, without animation though).



>>I say once again to Dillbert, thanks for the shows.

Here, here...




>>So buy Pangolin!

>>You get what you pay for. You don't buy a Ford Focus and then moan it hasn't got Ferrari seats. If you want to share the Ferrari experience with your friends, you buy a Ferrari.

>>If you want premium content, you buy Pangolin.

>>If you want to share the Pangolin experience, your friends get Pangolin and you share it amongst you. Just as you do with other premium packages.

Old school reply edits...


Sadly, though, the HIGH price of software like Pangolin is what keeps most people OUT of this "hobby." And I see the decline in posts in recent months/years... Most people who are interested in lasers look at the high price of the lasers and the software and go, "ya know, I love lasers, but I have a wife and kids to feed/bills/mortgage/whatever." Most of us aren't blessed with a high paying job where we can just drop $1500 at a whim... Some of us it would take forever just to save up that kind of money. So yeah, while I'm frustrated at Dr. Lava, part of my frustration comes at the fact that his software is not only what I need to do the kind of laser jobs I want, but it's damn affordable (compared to Pangolin)...

Personally, I'm glad for companies like Goldenstar and people who make affordable laser software. Pangolin should offer some of it's older software for greatly reduced prices, that way more people would be able to design great shows, more people would be able to get into this hobby easier, and more people would become aware of the wonderful aspect of lasers... I'm sure it's not every day Pangolin sells a piece of software...

[DZ]

I'm sure it's not every day Pangolin sells a piece of software...

Let's see, Pangolin introduced the QM2000 in 1999. So that was about 15 years ago or roughly 5475 days. In regards to the QM2K, yes, they have sold a good bit more than one per day. And, there are more FB3's than QM2K's if I'm not mistaken, so quite a bit more than one per day if you include the FB3....

[Bradfo69]

^ What he said... I believe Quickshow is on the order of a few hundred copies a month if I recall.

[Stuka]

First, Dillweed -
thanks again for the show!

And, unfortunately, as your thread has proved, it just wouldn't be PhotonLexicon if we didn't have at least one or two people expressing their displeasure with mean old Pangolin's innovation, success, and business model...

[SaltyRobot]

Personally, I'm glad for companies like Goldenstar and people who make affordable laser software. Pangolin should offer some of it's older software for greatly reduced prices, that way more people would be able to design great shows, more people would be able to get into this hobby easier, and more people would become aware of the wonderful aspect of lasers... I'm sure it's not every day Pangolin sells a piece of software...

I agree that Pangolin should sell the older software at a way reduced price. Programs like Phoenix should not cost almost as much as Beyond, Phoenix should cost around the same as LSX since it is a derivative of the original LSD. Also allow programs like Phoenix work with other DACs.

[absolom7691]

Sadly, though, the HIGH price of software like Pangolin is what keeps most people OUT of this "hobby." And I see the decline in posts in recent months/years... Most people who are interested in lasers look at the high price of the lasers and the software and go, "ya know, I love lasers, but I have a wife and kids to feed/bills/mortgage/whatever." Most of us aren't blessed with a high paying job where we can just drop $1500 at a whim... Some of us it would take forever just to save up that kind of money. So yeah, while I'm frustrated at Dr. Lava, part of my frustration comes at the fact that his software is not only what I need to do the kind of laser jobs I want, but it's damn affordable (compared to Pangolin)...

I know you have read it a million times over on this forum and I don't really need to repeat it but what the hell... I was a hobbyist in this area when a 15mW red HeNe would set you back $300 if you were lucky to find it at an MWK saturday sale. Open loop galvos from Laserworks were $400. Lasermax was $2500 and X-29 was probably double. Both Lasermax and X-29 could only do about the same thing that iShow can do. If you wanted 300mW of RGB with 20K scanners, DAC and software.... $12,000 would probably be a realistic price, and that is if you got the 300mW ArKr at a good price, used and hopefully refurb and a beat up PCAOM with cooked crystals. I hate to say this but even in this day and age, with laser gear costing pennies on the dollar, if you are on a really tight budget, you will constantly be frustrated in this field. I know, I have been there before, 20 years ago....

I once thought the way you d0 about Pangolin. I built my own correction amp and modded my own sound card and used LaserBoy and Spaghetti (back when it was free) because I thought is was ridiculous to spend that kind of money on Pangolin. Both of Spaghetti and LaserBoy are good and I am not knocking them but I wanted to do more. I saved up and eventually bought Pangolin. Yes, it is not cheap, but it is top of the line and I have honestly not looked back even once. Pangolin is not that expensive when you compare it to other software. Try looking up Lasergraph DSP or Digisynth. That will definitely put things into some serious perspective.

[colouredmirrorball]

Pangolin has its place... but as Absolom said, things are seriously cheaper than they used to be. Only software doesn't appear to follow this trend. If you paid €300 for a fully featured RGB projector you won't like to pay €500 for intro "hobbyist" level software (and you need to pay that price per projector!) So they are leaving a huge gap in the market. Others tried to fill in the blank but they all fail in some way. LSX is awesome but drlava has disappeared. Spaghetti doesn't really have a live feature yet. Dynamics needs more publicity outside Germany. GLS is just old software with additional proprietary hardware restrictions. IShow is just... iShow. I think there's still room for an all-in-one package with no arbitrary limits (such as locked to a particular DAC and no ilda export) with similar functionability as Pangolin (maybe not as nice or easy to use but that translates to the price). LSX meets all those properties so I hope development continues to happen.

The same happens in other branches. You have Blender which is equally powerful as the big multi-thousand-dollar 3D editor packages, or Reaper which is as good an audio DAW as it gets.

[norty303]

Can i just point out that the $1495 quoted earlier is not JUST for software, it includes the hardware too, and if that includes a QM board too, then that makes the software pretty cheap compared to a few years ago (I'm going on the basis that someone earlier mentioned you could have your option of QM or FB3). And if you choose the QM, you get all the LD2k stuff too. That's a massive price reduction over a few years ago, so although still perceptively pricey, it has come down in recent years.

If you paid €300 for a fully featured RGB projector you won't like to pay €500 for intro "hobbyist" level software

You may not LIKE it, but looking at the list of laser control software worth owning, it looks as if you NEED to spend at least a reasonable amount to get something worthwhile.
The total price of any worthwhile software/DAC combo is at least $500, and some of the others are equally up there with Pangolin.
Why does nobody bitch about those super expensive ones that makes Pangolin look like penny sweets in comparison?