are video projectors replacing laser projectors for graphics?

[sbk]

Hahaha

I can't stop laughing on this sorry

So if it's just light, why didn't we use the same light like these video projector to cut steel? to read blu-rays? to measure earth-moon distance? (thousands exemple to follow).

*mega troll spotted*

Sorry, but last time I checked laser is a device that emits *light*, like a video projector. Why is the light created by lasers better? And if you're going to talk about coherence, we've discussed that already.

[absolom7691]

We've all done this before. E.F., how did you get back in here?

Laserist, your sig works perfectly in this situation.

[absolom7691]

I suggest you ask these questions to a mirror and answer whatever questions the mirror asks you. You will get all the answers you're looking for.

Yes, now I'm trolling, which shows the total worth of this thread.

[mixedgas]

OP is not a troll, he is perhaps exhibiting Cognitive Dissonance.

Quoting the Author(s) of Wikipedia, Copied from Wiki at 17:38 Eastern Time, 20 AUGUST 2014.

"In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values.[1][2]

Leon Festinger's theory of cognitive dissonance focuses on how humans strive for internal consistency. When inconsistency (dissonance) is experienced, individuals largely become psychologically distressed. His basic hypotheses are listed below:

1."The existence of dissonance, being psychologically uncomfortable, will motivate the person to try to reduce the dissonance and achieve consonance"

2."When dissonance is present, in addition to trying to reduce it, the person will actively avoid situations and information which would likely increase the dissonance."

End Quote.

The Good News, the under-laying condition which causes this is probably very treatable with Love, Therapy, etc....

S.

[TechJunkie]

There is a lot missing here, in this thread. There is an old school Laserium laserist on this forum and while I strongly disagree with his ethics, I will say he is very correct about one thing: The laserist *IS* a part of the equipment. Sure, you can have software do all of this for you; visualizers and screen saver-esque video projections at the touch of a button. So can everyone else. Any idiot with a Mac or PC can do all of these things. The reason you don't see this much is because it isn't unique. There is no artistry behind it. People don't want a show that looks like something they can watch on their computer while they're smoking a doobie, listening to Digweed. There is nothing special about it.

This I have to totally disagree with this. Sure, for the average Joe Blow this is true, but it goes for laser projectors too. Untalented people will always go for the default.

An artist is an artist no matter what the medium is. I was using screen savers for a general example, but I can completely create images, and video to suit mood, and expression. And I can create this far easier through visual programs than through laser software. Laser software has come a long way, but its very complicated, extremely limited, and expensive. Free video generators, and image modifying software is everywhere. With a little talent you can create unlimited ideas.

I never said video projectors would replace laser projectors. Both have their place. My only point being they might start infiltrating the hobbyist market, and used more in the commercial aspects. This is true if you like it or not. Its already happening. They are both tools of the trade. You cant dismiss video projectors, just like you cant dismiss laser projectors. A smart person would embrace the new trends, and adapt their business accordingly. Sitting here putting down the technology is only going to get you left behind.

I wish this forum would be less bias. Nearly everyone here is extremely knowledgeable. The problem is you're so wrapped up in what "people should buy" and "should use" you fail to have empathy for anything outside your opinion. The people who make this place great is people like Norty, and Swami, to mention just a few. They tell it like it is, and didnt forget where they came from. They dont mention Pangolin in every other post. They dont tell you need $10K scanners to have a good time, or say your idea is a waste of time, or wont work. They tell you how to make it work. With most other members I feel pressure to buy something. The forum is a spam fest. You guys push the 506s like they are the answer to God. They dont even have drivers yet. Its not a complete product. So why do I have to see people pushing these all over the forum? A n00b wants advice about scanners. Here comes the 506 parade. Nobody says he has to by another pair of scanners to use the drivers. And he must send out these drivers to get rewired.

n00b: Hi, I'm new to projectors I'm looking for some scanners.
Member1: You have to buy the new Pangolin 506s.
Member2: Yes, they are the best.
n00b: How much are they?
Member1: Um, not sure, you need to contact Pangolin.
Member3: Dont forget to ask about QS 8.
n00b: I just need scanners.
Member2: But Pangolin QS 8 is the best. It does..bla...bla...bla..
n00b: Thank you, I just need the scanners.
n00b: The scanners dont come with drivers?
Member1: No, you have to buy another set of scanners and use those drivers.
n00b: ? How much is that?
Member2: Cheap set is $80 plus shipping. You may have to wait a month to get them. Or pay $40 for EMS.
n00b: ???? Then I can use the 506s?
Member2: No. You have to rewire the drivers to work with the 506s.
n00b: I dont know how to do that.
Member3: You can ship them to Pangolin, or one of us.
n00b: Is this free.
Members123: LOLOLOL
n00b: Then what do I do with the other scanners?
Member3: Use them as a paperweight because no one will buy them because everyone is buying 506s.
n00b: So let me get this straight. I have to buy 2 sets of scanners. Wait/Pay for shipping for both. Then I have to wait/pay for shipping to and from the people who will rewire the drivers, plus pay them to rewire them? And my other scanners are worthless?
Member1. Yes!!!
Member2: Did I mention QS 8?

Sorry people, but this is not helping anyone.

End Rant.

[absolom7691]

Untalented people will always go for the default.

Agreed. Untalented people in this field typically don't make money, this is why I don't do commercial shows. That and the hassel of safety.

An artist is an artist no matter what the medium is. I was using screen savers for a general example, but I can completely create images, and video to suit mood, and expression. And I can create this far easier through visual programs than through laser software. Laser software has come a long way, but its very complicated, extremely limited, and expensive. Free video generators, and image modifying software is everywhere. With a little talent you can create unlimited ideas.

A person hitting play on a visualizer is not an artist. It's cool to look at, I don't dispute that. The question was, at that time, why aren't people using video projectors when there is a plethora of software out there that makes this all easy. I gave my answer; the professionals don't typically use this over lasers because they wouldn't get any gigs for a psuedo-lasershow.

I never said video projectors would replace laser projectors.

*ahem*

Give it a little more time, and galvo projectors will be the thing of the past

You cant dismiss video projectors, just like you cant dismiss laser projectors. A smart person would embrace the new trends, and adapt their business accordingly. Sitting here putting down the technology is only going to get you left behind.

Nowhere did I dismiss them. I never said they wouldn't be useful nor do I think the technology is a bad thing. What I do find odd is why anyone would want to spend thousands more on something to have it emulate the thing the costs less. Tripping over a dollar to pick up a dime. It's like spending as much money as a Ferrari on a Kit-Car that looks like a Ferrari. Sure, video projectors can do some amazing graphics but if that is what you're after, then by all means, do it. If you are going to emulate a laser, why not just buy a laser. That is what makes this thread worthless. Can you do it? Yes. Should you? I don't know, that is up to you.

I wish this forum would be less bias. Nearly everyone here is extremely knowledgeable. The problem is you're so wrapped up in what "people should buy" and "should use" you fail to have empathy for anything outside your opinion.

If you come to a laser forum and ask questions pertaining to lasers, you are going to read about what you should buy and should use. The reason for this is, most here have, not just knowledge, but experience. They have been there and done that. I have probably spent twice as much on this hobby as I should have. I did this because I didn't listen to what people told me to buy/use. I went cheap and regretted it because after going cheap, and spending money to make it work like the stuff I was told to buy in the first place, I bought the stuff I was told to buy and now the junk is collecting dust. This goes well beyond opinion. The bias is because we want people to get the best bang for their buck and not repeat the mistakes we made. The rude bias comes to play when countless people ask for advice and then go against it anyway. Everyone has answered his questions in every single way. Pros and cons. Norty told him a lot of the pros, the rest of us told him the cons. If he can't weigh the difference then there is very little the rest of us can do. I suppose one of us could hold his hand and walk into the store and ask him which ones he want. He already stated he owns his own laser rig. He also stated that he has personally seen video projectors being used in this regard. He has heard both sides and seen it for himself. WHAT MORE DOE HE WANT!??!?

The people who make this place great is people like Norty, and Swami, to mention just a few. They tell it like it is, and didnt forget where they came from. They dont mention Pangolin in every other post.

I agree, these guys are top notch. About Pangolin, that doesn't happen nearly as often as you think. You think it does because that happens to be the threads you visit.

They dont tell you need $10K scanners to have a good time, or say your idea is a waste of time, or wont work. They tell you how to make it work. With most other members I feel pressure to buy something. The forum is a spam fest. You guys push the 506s like they are the answer to God. They dont even have drivers yet. Its not a complete product. So why do I have to see people pushing these all over the forum? A n00b wants advice about scanners. Here comes the 506 parade. Nobody says he has to by another pair of scanners to use the drivers. And he must send out these drivers to get rewired.

Anyone spending $10K on scanners in this day and age is an idiot. My biggest beef with the world economy today is that people are willing to settle on cheap shit from China. Anything WalMart pushes off their shelf is good enough for them. We have collectively become complacent about quality, simply because we are getting a "good deal". Let me rephrase, we have become complacent about quality because we are getting a good price. The reason why I push the 506s (which no one mentioned in this thread outside of you *see self fulfilling prophecy) is because when someone wants the best quality at the lowest price, I will mention it. If they don't have the money or the know-how to set them up, I would recommend something else. If someone said, "I don't care about quality, I just want the best price" I would tell them to get some speakers and glue mirrors to them. I am simply giving the benefit of my experience. I own a corrected sound card. I have the latest LaserBoy. I have Spaghetti. I have LSX. I have PTs, DTs, G120s and 506s. All of them are great in their own right. The stuff I use the most, Pangolin. The scanners I like the best, 506s. It's advice. Take it or leave it.

[absolom7691]

Unless others finally actually reply to my responses to their arguments...

They have, countless times. Were you reading?

Let me fix it for you:

Unless others finally actually tell me precisely what I expect to read....

[TechJunkie]

A person hitting play on a visualizer is not an artist. It's cool to look at, I don't dispute that. The question was, at that time, why aren't people using video projectors when there is a plethora of software out there that makes this all easy. I gave my answer; the professionals don't typically use this over lasers because they wouldn't get any gigs for a psuedo-lasershow.

Yeah I think we are getting 2 debates confused.

BTW the visualizers I use have multiple control options much like laser software. Then I can take short clips of the visualization and stitch it with other effects through After Effects. I can even add background images through PS, all while following an audio time line with Audition. Then use TMPGEnc Video Mastering Works to wrap it up. BTW there are free versions of all the software listed.

*ahem*

You got me. But part of that was speculation. The day we see full laser RGB projectors come down to a reasonable price may be the day we see the last of the typical galvo laser projector.

Nowhere did I dismiss them. I never said they wouldn't be useful nor do I think the technology is a bad thing. What I do find odd is why anyone would want to spend thousands more on something to have it emulate the thing the costs less. Tripping over a dollar to pick up a dime. It's like spending as much money as a Ferrari on a Kit-Car that looks like a Ferrari. Sure, video projectors can do some amazing graphics but if that is what you're after, then by all means, do it. If you are going to emulate a laser, why not just buy a laser. That is what makes this thread worthless. Can you do it? Yes. Should you? I don't know, that is up to you.

And for that reason this thread is not worthless. Variety is the spice of life. For me personally the application of a video projector will do more of what I want then a laser projector. This is fact, and I'm sure I'm not alone. This forum does cover other lighting, so I dont see why projectors cannot be a topic also.

If you come to a laser forum and ask questions pertaining to lasers, you are going to read about what you should buy and should use. The reason for this is, most here have, not just knowledge, but experience. They have been there and done that. I have probably spent twice as much on this hobby as I should have. I did this because I didn't listen to what people told me to buy/use. I went cheap and regretted it because after going cheap, and spending money to make it work like the stuff I was told to buy in the first place, I bought the stuff I was told to buy and now the junk is collecting dust. This goes well beyond opinion. The bias is because we want people to get the best bang for their buck and not repeat the mistakes we made. The rude bias comes to play when countless people ask for advice and then go against it anyway. Everyone has answered his questions in every single way. Pros and cons. Norty told him a lot of the pros, the rest of us told him the cons. If he can't weigh the difference then there is very little the rest of us can do. I suppose one of us could hold his hand and walk into the store and ask him which ones he want. He already stated he owns his own laser rig. He also stated that he has personally seen video projectors being used in this regard. He has heard both sides and seen it for himself. WHAT MORE DOE HE WANT!??!?

I'm speaking for myself. Like I said earlier we have 2 debates going on about a simular topic. Its easy to get confused.

About Pangolin, that doesn't happen nearly as often as you think. You think it does because that happens to be the threads you visit.

I'm calling bullshit on this one. I'm not going to even debate it. If you cant see that Pangolin is spamming the shit out of this forum, then I have nothing more to say.

It's advice. Take it or leave it.

Advice only works if it helps somebody. Pimping scanners without drivers is not helping anyone. If you get a n00b in here that doesnt know anything about scanners the last thing you want to tell him is to buy incomplete hardware. You tell him to start off with working scanners. Then if he gets into it you recommend the better scanner.

[norty303]

Buy Pangolin



That is all...

[absolom7691]

Yeah I think we are getting 2 debates confused.

Probably. IMO, this thread was off the rails before it started. Regardless, the thing with visualizers is that you do all of the work previous to the show. You are basically displaying a canned show. Most of the pro guys don't do that.

You got me. But part of that was speculation. The day we see full laser RGB projectors come down to a reasonable price may be the day we see the last of the typical galvo laser projector.

I still don't know. One deals with vectors, the other with pixels. Even when using lasers as a light soure, your video image is still generated by LCD or micromirror (DLP). I admit, the color saturation would be right up there with lasers but instead of a beam, you would have pixels.

And for that reason this thread is not worthless. Variety is the spice of life. For me personally the application of a video projector will do more of what I want then a laser projector. This is fact, and I'm sure I'm not alone. This forum does cover other lighting, so I dont see why projectors cannot be a topic also.

Sure, I am guilty of hyperbole so no, not totally worthless. BTW there is a section for other light forms, "coherence is lost on them" lol. I should say that this argument has become worthless. I mean really, you can't look back, rereading all of the responses, and say that there isn't an overwhelming bit condoning and condemning video projectors. The OP should be able to discern whether or not the venture is worth it. If you are interested in projecting video, there is nothing that does this better than a video projector. If you are interested in projecting lasers, there is NOTHING that will do it better than lasers. That cannot be disputed.