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Thread: Hire and shows prices help...

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Cork, Ireland
    Posts
    59

    Default Hire and shows prices help...

    Hi all,

    Just got back into the business after a long break. I'm really stuck as to what to charge for taking out our new Lasers. We have a 2.5 w RGB and will be getting a 800mw RGB for smaller venues. If we need more Lasers for a bigger shows we will need to hire them. Can anyone please give me an idea of what they would charge for small and larger venues?

    I'd really appreciate any feedback please. We are in Ireland. Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    East Sussex, England
    Posts
    5,244

    Default

    Day rate for employee(s) + transport costs (pence per mile or similar, plus parking, tolls, etc) + consumables (fog use, gaffa tape, LX tape, etc) + percentage of kit cost (depending on how quickly you want to pay it off - typically in sound/light industry its between 2% and 10% dependent on item and regularity of hires) + fixed costs (percentage of PLI/kit insurance, storage costs, etc) + admin/content creation/misc charges for unusual jobs.

    Or do a 'package' price based on typical job, durations, etc. E.g. I have a 2x 2.5W RGB projectors+Pangolin Beyond/LivePro package price into London that is easy to quote and covers a lot of venues up to about 600 or so in a room. Typical small promoter size and budget. And then can add bolt ons of extra projectors, mirrors, gratings, etc from there. Note that some things like gratings, although cheap in monetary terms, have a disproportionately high time cost in rigging and setup, so don't rent 20 bounce mirrors at 5 a time (based on 10% of purchase cost) only to find you need an extra day to rig and align all the buggers.
    Frikkin Lasers
    http://www.frikkinlasers.co.uk

    You are using Bonetti's defense against me, ah?

    I thought it fitting, considering the rocky terrain.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Cork, Ireland
    Posts
    59

    Default

    say we're doing something simple, 1/2 into Cork in the car, 3 hour show, one 2.5 w light. Any ideas?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Cork, Ireland
    Posts
    59

    Default

    Thanks norty, hello again. Theres some great info there for helping me to work things out but I'm still not sure what to charge for our time. medium nightclub, with one light 2.5, soon to be KVANT 3w RGB

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    East Sussex, England
    Posts
    5,244

    Default

    Only you can know what your time means to you, and the effort it requires. I have a standard day rate (well 2 actually, depending on corporate or more fun work) and that doesn't get discounted ever. I will do deals on kit, but never on costs, fixed costs or my time. My day rate went up by 25 as soon as I'd completed my safety training. Knowledge and experience are what people are paying for. A single projector gig isn't too hard but start to put 4 or 6 projectors on a job with things like video projectors that require masking, reflective environments evaluating, masking apertutres physically so you can only hit the balcony front, etc and you soon start thinking you're underpaid... especially when you get thrown a technical issue requiring a projector opening up from up in the rig 30 mins from doors
    Frikkin Lasers
    http://www.frikkinlasers.co.uk

    You are using Bonetti's defense against me, ah?

    I thought it fitting, considering the rocky terrain.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Cork, Ireland
    Posts
    59

    Default

    We do have the connections to get some big gigs as you describe and good dealerships in place, I also did some of what your speaking about setting up partys before I went off the scene for 5 years being a single f/t Dad, really what I'm looking for is a basic idea of what to tell the local clubs as a starting point as I haven't a clue as to the going rates. I dont know where to start. I dont want to overcharge, and equally important not undercharge. Just a starting point of turning up with the KVANT ClubMax 3000 for 3 hours to a city nightclub.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    East Sussex, England
    Posts
    5,244

    Default

    In the entertainment industry its normally worked on a day rate, regardless of how long the call is, with a day being up to 12 or 14 hours sometimes, but could be as little as a few hours.
    So, take 10 to 15p/h, times a typical 'day' of 10 hours and you start to get into the region of rates. But it all depends on what you can command really. Also, if you know you have a mortgage to pay and similar, you know what your income needs to be per 'day' based on getting 3 or 4 calls per week. Work it out from there. There is no 'typical' price but I see day rates for sound, lighting and laser techs from 100 up to 250, depending on the job and the person being employed. At this stage you aren't a 250/day sort of person, but that doesn't stop you charging it if you can get it.

    Work out all your fixed costs and hire charges for the night as per my post a couple back, and then come back and post it. Then I'll ask you how much grief you think the job is, and how much you'd want if you were just going somewhere to work (inc travel time) for that number of hours. The number you tell me is 'at least' how much you should charge as essentially this is purely your profit on the job. Everything else is coming out of your pocket at some point along the way, and so a loss.

    By my estimates you're at something like:
    Projector - 150 (based on 10% or thereabouts)
    Fogger - 15
    Fluid - 10
    Laptop and software and DAC - 70
    Insurance - 15 (based on a typical 2m liability PLI policy for the year, if you haven't got this, get it before the job at the very least. You should not be doing any work without it)
    Travel @45ppm - 27 (based on 30 miles each way as you said about half hour drive, worst case scenario)

    So far 287 or so, admittedly you're probably a bit high on some stuff, laptop might be paid for, etc but 250 sounds probable. Then add what you want to earn actually in your pocket and you're away.

    Business 101

    P.S. Don't forget to put some money to one side out of the profit for when a diode goes pop, a scanner mirror breaks when you're adjusting it, new cables, and all the sundary little items you ignore or forget about.
    Start a cashbook as you might do if you're running a small company and log everything, even if you're not planning on doing a tax return. This is by far the most revealing way of determining if you're charging enough. I fritter away sily amounts of money each year on maintenance that I simply have to buy, and in little dribs and drabs but can 'lose' hundreds over the course of a year.
    Frikkin Lasers
    http://www.frikkinlasers.co.uk

    You are using Bonetti's defense against me, ah?

    I thought it fitting, considering the rocky terrain.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Cork, Ireland
    Posts
    59

    Default

    Hi Norty,

    Thanks a million for all the time you took putting this together for me. This is going to help me out a lot putting a business plan together which is something I need to do.

    Jasper

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    537

    Default

    I charge $500-$600 Per 2.5w and scale it down a tad it more are rented. That price includes a small hazer, if they want/need more i charge $100 per Viper NT fogger + Fluid Costs
    I have some 2w TTL lasers that i charge $300 each for

    just some numbers to give you an idea from this side of the pond
    "This is not "work". It's a disease, addiction and passion. Only slightly cheaper than cocaine, but similar effects."
    -dnar

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    East Sussex, England
    Posts
    5,244

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    Wow, I wish we could get those sorts of day rates over here! A decent Hazer/fogger over here will go out for about 25-30 a day.
    Frikkin Lasers
    http://www.frikkinlasers.co.uk

    You are using Bonetti's defense against me, ah?

    I thought it fitting, considering the rocky terrain.

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