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Thread: Phenix PT-A10 scanners

  1. #11
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    I don,t have to proof anything. There are numerous threads posted on PL about laserworld projectors that are not up to spec. My point is that Bill is posting a thread about PT scanners that are not up till spec while his biggest customer does exactly the same thing but he looks the other way because he bennefits from their sales. He could slap laserworld on his wrist but you don,t see him doing that since that will have a bad effect on his relationship and eventually will cost him money.

    Pangolin doesn't sell modules nor full built projectors so why would they really?
    I don,t see what that has to do with anything here.......

    I don't think this is bills responsibility.. the product range he delivers is what his focus is on and those are good..The fault is with LaserWorld here.. (I believe that's the one you are implying).
    I agree but critisizing Phenix technology that their scanners are not up till specs while in his own backyard laserworld sells or sold projectors that under specs for years is a little bit hypocritical. Phenix is a competitor and so its al too much convininient to blame their product but because laserworld putts money in bills pocket he looks the other way.


    Aside from it he did state his opinion to be taken with a grain of salt as he is considered to be a competitor but still supports his claims with images rather then just text.
    Yes he started with that since he was aware that it looks a bit dodgy since he is also a competitor in the scannermarket.

    They help the industry in a sense that they sponsor/support a lot of creators to participate in the industry and also share knowledge and they are pushing forward the industry by investing money into scanner development (and off course they gain from it too.. they are a business not a charity).
    The 506 scanners are really good value.. Edison have you tried them yourself?.. I would contact mixedgas and try them.. you are missing out.
    Yes they are a bussiness and not a charity, if their is nothing to gain he won,t help. In this case it looks like he helps people to show that Phenix scanners are not up till specs but at the end of the day its just a post to steer them away to buy his 506 scanners. You don,t see him posting threads about Laserword projectors that are underspecs......

    Edison you make amazing modules, why not benefit from this new range of scanners rather then making a bad relationship with the company that could be off use to you? Did some bad cooperation occur or is this some after shock from the whole EyeMagic thread?
    Just because i don,t like the way Mr brenner presents himself and critisize the way he is doing bussiness that doesn,t mean i,m not interested in their products. One thing i agree with Mr brenner is that a product should be perfect and should speak for it self so if they are better then eyemagics or PT i will for sure suggest them to customers. However i don,t have plans to build projectors at least not up till 5 watt. The low end market up till 5 watt is completely in the hands of china. If start building projectors in the next year it will be in the range of 12 watt - 40 watt.


    @Omar you should lend Bill that new version.. the PR would be beneficial if your claims are true really.
    Pj, i,m sure mr brenner can afford to buy one........


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  2. #12
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    Long post.. should likely not derail the thread anymore and rather see a video or picture compilation that shows the specs claimed are indeed true.. would solve everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by edison View Post
    I don,t have to proof anything. There are numerous threads posted on PL about laserworld projectors that are not up to spec. My point is that Bill is posting a thread about PT scanners that are not up till spec while his biggest customer does exactly the same thing but he looks the other way because he bennefits from their sales. He could slap laserworld on his wrist but you don,t see him doing that since that will have a bad effect on his relationship and eventually will cost him money.
    The thing is the threads on PL regarding laserworld are.....well from 2009
    I wouldn't buy from them honestly as the damage has been done in my vision.

    Quote Originally Posted by edison View Post
    I don,t see what that has to do with anything here.......
    I do Edison.. Pangolin isn't selling modules or projectors.. they just deliver a product and when there is something wrong related to their products then yes they should act and feel responsible.. What an end user does with the product in general practice should normally be none of your bussiness unless it involves a hazard regarding your product that could taint your companies name. It's the same in animation.. if you have a bussiness client with no creative mind.. they think of something that you consider boring but they want it.. then its take it or leave it.. You don't always have the choice in that but you can suggest and convince the client by gaining trust in your work... but even then....it's the client who has the final word..

    Quote Originally Posted by edison View Post
    I agree but critisizing Phenix technology that their scanners are not up till specs while in his own backyard laserworld sells or sold projectors that under specs for years is a little bit hypocritical. Phenix is a competitor and so its al too much convininient to blame their product but because laserworld putts money in bills pocket he looks the other way.

    Yes he started with that since he was aware that it looks a bit dodgy since he is also a competitor in the scannermarket.
    Yes he did also mention he was a competitor and take his visions wider.. I think issues like this can easily be prevented if you can just visually show
    that what you are claiming is also true.. it really gets rid of the entire debate.. The scanspeed claimed does sound rather unrealistic.

    Quote Originally Posted by edison View Post
    Yes they are a bussiness and not a charity, if their is nothing to gain he won,t help. In this case it looks like he helps people to show that Phenix scanners are not up till specs but at the end of the day its just a post to steer them away to buy his 506 scanners. You don,t see him posting threads about Laserword projectors that are underspecs......
    I see bill more as a developer then a bussinessman personally.
    A lot of it is off course with gain.. I mean we need to all eat too.. but he most certainly does things that don't really have a gain.. or indirectly or not with the intend to. Bill also shares past knowledge or
    experiences with people with the intention to inform and not sell.. I mean come on we have seen it on PL you cannot avoid this. Slightly before 506 was actually released and sold Bill also taught me a lot about scanners or answered my questions regarding scanners.. inertia and more. Not with the intend of selling any product.. pure with letting me grasp better what are the limitations and issues and what it would take to repair or design your own scanners filled with pictures of all kinds of info.

    I also learned from you as well, you tought me what knife edging was at the UK con quite a few years ago during breakfast.
    I'm just saying it might not be wise to put anyone in the spotlight here because he or she is selling a product instead you could benefit from ones knowledge if what is claimed turns out to be true.

    In Omars case I would measure the mirror, place it and scan the ilda test pattern at a visible angle.. video is the most solid proof but pictures can do it too.. I would consider that setting your foot down on confirming what you deliver is what you get.
    Last edited by masterpj; 12-03-2014 at 07:25.

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    Edison.... It's "Benner" not "Brenner". Seeing you repeatedly misspell someone's name when your criticizing them is more annoying that whatever it is you're typing.

    I understand where you are coming from and I'll not get in the middle but, the one thing I will point out is that you are incorrect when you say "if there is nothing to gain, he won't help". That's a very broad statement and I think many with personal experience will tell you otherwise. I fully get your point there too and yes... if there wasn't a certain level of that, most businesses wouldn't survive.

    You don't have the benefit of having spent a fair amount of time with him personally, than many of us have at LEM's and other events so I can tell you a blanket statement like that is false.

    Carry on.

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    Whatever is being said he has the abbility to confront laserword and the way they do bussiness , for example discuss it with his ILDA friends. But why do something about it? His pocket are filled trough them so why bother? Laserworld projectors are not complient with the safety regulations either but we don,t do anything since there is nothing to gain. Complient or not people buying them anyway and improving them contributes not to the selling of scanners or quickshow packages so why do something about it?

    You can say its not his responsebillity but that is too easy. Trying to save the world is not my responsebillity either but if all people start in their own backyard its a start and sure helps.

    In my opinion he is the last person on earth that should post about PT scanners not performing as he is a competitor. Laserworld is doing the same in his backyard and that is going on for years so i would say start there first.

    Just another post to get attention to buy his scanners.......
    Last edited by edison; 12-03-2014 at 08:13.


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    Quote Originally Posted by edison View Post
    Whatever is being said he has the abbility to confront laserword and the way they do bussiness , for example discuss it with his ILDA friends. But why do something about it? His pocket are filled trough them so why bother? Laserworld projectors are not complient with the safety regulations either but we don,t do anything since there is nothing to gain. Complient or not people buying them anyway and improving them contributes not to the selling of scanners or quickshow packages so why do something about it?

    You can say its not his responsebillity but that is too easy. Trying to save the world is not my responsebillity either but if all people start in their own backyard its a start and sure helps.

    In my opinion he is the last person on earth that should post about PT scanners not performing as he is a competitor. Laserworld is doing the same in his backyard and that is going on for years so i would say start there first.

    Just another post to get attention to buy his scanners.......
    Laserworld doesn't sell to the United States....If someone does then the dealer is the one at fault here. the compliancy isn't enforced in a lot of parts of europe.
    It's not his "backyard" Pangolin sells the DAC"s to them and that's all they do... that's like ... you selling a ethernet cable to a gaming company and then being guilted for not taking responsibility of them providing proper PC power supplies... it's not their product.

    ILDA friends? This is not ILDA's problem.. ILDA has limited funds.. very limited.. it's a law enforcement that should take the action incase any compliancies are violated they got way higher budgets to make it all happen.. You are putting the blame on the wrong person... talk to laserworld and a lot of the unexperienced distributors making this all happen instead.

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    Laserworld doesn't sell to the United States....If someone does then the dealer is the one at fault here. the compliancy isn't enforced in a lot of parts of europe.
    It's not his "backyard" Pangolin sells the DAC"s to them and that's all they do... that's like ... you selling a ethernet cable to a gaming company and then being guilted for not taking responsibility of them providing proper PC power supplies... it's not their product.
    With the connections Mr benner has and being 2 peas in a pot with the Ilda association he sure has the abbillity to do something about it even though its not his responsebility. So why not start there instead of posting some thread about a competitor of his scanners to show that they not perform as they should? Even if his intensions where strictly just to make people aware of that the PT scanners why not start in his own backyard confront laserworld with their underpowered projectors?

    He didn,t even bother to contact Omar and order his latest version!!


    ILDA friends? This is not ILDA's problem.. ILDA has limited funds.. very limited.. it's a law enforcement that should take the action incase any compliancies are violated they got way higher budgets to make it all happen..
    The ILDA association has limited funds? Mr benner himself said that the laserindustry is a billion dollar industry so i think their is enough money floating arround. Second the number of ILDA members is huge because everyone is almost obligated to be part of it. If your not you are not be taken seriously as a company in the laserindustry. And since they all have to pay quite a sum of money for it i,m sure there is enough money to take some action.

    You are putting the blame on the wrong person... talk to laserworld and a lot of the unexperienced distributors making this all happen instead.
    So if i,m understand right your is solution is that an unknown guy like me has to go to laserworld headquarters and slap them on the wrist for seling underpowered and unsafe projectors or have a chat with their dealers? What a joke, most laserworld dealers are schoolguys in their twenties that trying to make a buck or two. Same as Kvant tries to find dealers for their products. I,m sure you know what i mean


    People like Bill can make the difference because his position in the laserindustry But he isn,t going to slap laserworld on their wrist or do something about it because Laserworld is filling his pockets by selling his products. But if its a competitor like PT he is all to eager to post a thread about that their scanners are not capable of what their specsheet shows.


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    Quote Originally Posted by edison View Post

    The ILDA association has limited funds? Mr benner himself said that the laserindustry is a billion dollar industry
    Yes but ILDA isn't that entire industry .. the laser industry goes outside of laser entertainment too.. laser entertainment is just a fraction of it.. aside of that not everyone from the industry is signed up to ilda.. so they have to do it with the money they get from memberships and sponsorships. I know the budget of ILDA as patrick murphy told me himself and also where the expenses are being used towards.. it's really not a whole lot.. I don't feel the desire to post such information as this email between ILDA members.. Just don't make false assumptions of things you cannot proof.

    I'm an ilda member myself....

    Quote Originally Posted by edison View Post
    What a joke, most laserworld dealers are schoolguys in their twenties that trying to make a buck or two.
    Yeah and they get away with it.. and nobody in the industry other then a strict law which can put serious financial responsibility on those guys can change that..
    Those guys wanna make a buck.. a lot of rules and safety measures are not obeyed because some people just want to make a quick buck.. the won't suddenly start caring.. that's not how these people work.

    Now I'm stopping to respond here.. I cannot convince someone who has convinced himself with points which might not be completely looked into.
    If you want we can discuss it at a LEM sometime as I don't feel like flooding threads like it's an IRC chat discussion.

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    Spaghetti isn't really meant for clubs. That's where you went wrong. Operator error.

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    Nice review Bill. Judging from the the replies it's pretty obvious why so few people who actually know what they're doing bother to do a review more than once. Eating their young is bad enough, but this is the only group I'm aware of the chews up and spits out it's pros...
    "There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot, but there are others who, with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun." Pablo Picasso

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    Maybe because nowhere else you see a competing company owner reviewing another company's products in an internet forum?

    If a company reviews another company, it's just wrong. It doesn't matter if you're a "pro". This isn't just a group. This is an industry and Pangolin is a company.
    And that's why even if you put a disclaimer you're going to get shit for doing this. Yet this keeps happening over and over again.

    Release your own competing products and let us be the one to judge.
    Such claims have been done before with diagrams and calculations trying to prove it, but then I try both products in practice and both are (surprise) not that different.

    Spot on!!! I couldn,t have said it better!! Thanks Dream for making it so clear!!!


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