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Thread: Phenix PT-A10 scanners

  1. #21
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    Don't shoot yourself in the foot by making the claims appear invalid just because the company is a competitor.. video is a lot more solid proof then a diagram and other speclist proof.. just saying.
    Company or not he has the knowledge and most of us do not have this deep knowledge about scanners. I hate the false claims about scanners it's a confusing mess just like you hate the wattage per $ rate where mrad and divergence is being neglected.. influencing your sales he has a good reason to be upset about fake performance claims affecting his sales.

    That's all I have to say about this all.

  2. #22
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    There are absolutely dangers about talking about other companies products, but unless somebody is going to stand up and be consumer reports here then it's what's left. Seems to me there were a whole bunch of I'm a Mac, I'm a PC ads a while back. I enjoyed them. Perhaps they did take a poke the other company's user's preconceptions as much as the competition itself. Maybe Bill needs to stop trying not to offend the people who whisper, "lie to me". ;-)



    Quote Originally Posted by dream View Post
    Maybe because nowhere else you see a competing company owner reviewing another company's products in an internet forum?

    If a company reviews another company, it's just wrong. It doesn't matter if you're a "pro". This isn't just a group. This is an industry and Pangolin is a company.
    And that's why even if you put a disclaimer you're going to get shit for doing this. Yet this keeps happening over and over again.

    Release your own competing products and let us be the one to judge.
    Such claims have been done before with diagrams and calculations trying to prove it, but then I try both products in practice and both are (surprise) not that different.
    "There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot, but there are others who, with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun." Pablo Picasso

  3. #23
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    Thank you for the review, Bill. It's nice to see someone with the test equipment and also industry know-how to properly test galvos and provide real numbers about a scanning system. It's also nice to see actual results instead of just hyperbole.
    Those who fail to grasp art are the ones who criticize it.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnYayas View Post
    Spaghetti isn't really meant for clubs. That's where you went wrong. Operator error.
    I actually LOL'ed thank you, I needed that laugh

    Quote Originally Posted by dream View Post
    Maybe because nowhere else you see a competing company owner reviewing another company's products in an internet forum?
    I'll tell you what, while Bill and I may not always see eye to eye (hehe) I have the utmost respect his technical abilities... his reviews of these scanners are waaayyyyy above and beyond what anyone else is doing as far as I am aware

    so unless Omar wants to send me a set for evaluation/review we'll just have to take Bill's word

    (along with the disclaimer of course)
    Last edited by flecom; 12-17-2014 at 21:08.

  5. #25
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    Hi guys,

    Perhaps the biggest flaw in my original post was including a link to a YouTube video, so that people can see the performance of the Compact 506 in comparison. If I hadn't done that, perhaps the review would have seemed more fair (although the results would be exactly the same). In this light, I have removed that link from my original post and now people can re-read the post and thread and judge for themselves. Basically, I removed a single sentence, half of which was the YouTube URL itself.

    Note that years ago, before the Compact 506 even existed, I would have done the same review if I had been given these scanners and asked to review them. I don't make posts to make myself feel good or to cut people or companies down. I do make posts to convey valuable information.

    Long before Pangolin made scanners, I have done these same kind of reviews for General Scanning, Cambridge, Galvoline, LSK, Cyberscan, JM Laser, MediaLas and others and posted on public forums that were available at that time (for example the ILDA Laserist List). Sometimes the reviews are good, and other times not so good. I tell it like it is folks... And even on the Pangolin web site, today you will not find a single review of ScannerMAX scanners, but you WILL find an article I wrote about Cambridge Scanners in which I gave them a positive review here: http://www.pangolin.com/resguide13.htm And you'll find similar articles and reviews I did on scanners at LaserFX.com.

    In this case, a client had acquired a pair of these and the client themselves wasn't really sophisticated enough to do the tests themselves, so they sent these to me. I did the test and posted the results, only because there had already been people on the forum talking about them, but nobody had a chance to do a review themselves.

    From the very beginning (the entire content of the second sentence in this thread) I put people on guard by making it perfectly clear who I am and the company I represent, allowing people to take what I wrote in full context and with full disclosure. So sure, in some sense, people might have felt better about the review if it had been done by Buffo instead of me. But aside from a feeling, what would change? The results are the results, and as I wrote in my original post and follow-up, I invite others to duplicate or refute my results and make their own video. So far nobody has -- the only thing people are complaining about is the messenger ;-)

    Bill
    Last edited by Pangolin; 12-22-2014 at 22:37.

  6. #26
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    If the above scanner test is accurate (& no one has indicated otherwise) then what's the problem? It seems to me there's a group of people just waiting to criticise Pangolin at every opportunity. Get over it guys!

  7. #27
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    Can you not separate Bill the "Pangolin guy" from Bill the reviewer?

    Obviously we all know who he is. You like the results or you don't, you agree with the results or you don't. Being a reviewer is hard enough in itself; sometimes you have to realize that maybe 50% of the people in the world may agree with you and 50% may not. But at least he took the time to bring some technical data and specs. You're gonna get crap no matter what you do...

    Okay, so why am I jumping into this? Plain and simple: I've been a reviewer for 22 years... I've had my issues with Pangolin, hell I've had my issues with anybody and everybody at one time... All I gotta say is, at the end of the day, stand by what you say and own up to it... A reviewer's job, truth be told, is still an opinion. Now, granted, Bill's opinions may be more valid than mine (I've barely got 2 years of "experience" playing with lasers, and there's still shit tons more I have no clue about), Bill's got, what, years and years??? So a professional opinion isn't valid in today's world anymore? Fuck, the elitist attitudes run wild yet again...

    Bill, thanks for at least giving these things a shot. As someone who has yet to purchase a set of 40k scanners, I appreciate the effort. Your years of experience tell me that in the field of lasers, and from what I've seen you write already, I can reasonable trust that you're "on the level." And from someone who's made a living out of doing reviews, I ALSO know how hard it is to just throw it out there, blemishes and all...

    I've stated this before and goddammit I'm going to do so again... United we stand... Divided we fall... (Does make for good drama though)...

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by dream View Post
    Maybe because nowhere else you see a competing company owner reviewing another company's products in an internet forum?

    If a company reviews another company, it's just wrong. It doesn't matter if you're a "pro". This isn't just a group. This is an industry and Pangolin is a company.
    And that's why even if you put a disclaimer you're going to get shit for doing this. Yet this keeps happening over and over again.

    Release your own competing products and let us be the one to judge.
    Such claims have been done before with diagrams and calculations trying to prove it, but then I try both products in practice and both are (surprise) not that different.
    Quote Originally Posted by dream View Post
    All this is irrelevant. I've been very clear on why this is wrong. The above doesn't justify this being unethical one bit.
    Nothing more to add. No more time to waste on this either.

    You and the fanboys (for example check the below quote) can act like we're all just haters if it makes all of you feel good. I've had it with this forum.

    *facepalm*
    I'll look forward to your review then

  9. #29
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    I've had it with this forum
    *throws toys out of pram, threatens to leave*

    See you next week then
    http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems
    http://www.frikkinlazors.co.uk

    You are using Bonetti's defense against me, ah?

    I thought it fitting, considering the rocky terrain.

  10. #30
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    Pretty sure there is an "o" in Phoenix.

    I agree with everything else debated here otherwise. )

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by norty303 View Post
    *throws toys out of pram, threatens to leave*

    See you next week then
    ROFL. It is just the Internet....
    This space for rent.

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