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Thread: Lightwave International and their questionable Phenom claims

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    Question *thread removed

    [[Closed thread]]
    Last edited by masterpj; 01-14-2015 at 06:49. Reason: thread closed

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    I'm not too sure what your issue is tbh. In their text they state that at 9.1m or more it is safe. Providing it is rigged that far, it will be safe.
    By controlling the content themselves, the scanning and the exposure, they don't leave it open to error for the user. I expect PASS is in there somewhere too.

    If I supply you with one of my projectors, and a fixed frame set, and an appropriate safetyscan lens, I can also ensure it is safe providing you adhere to my minimum distances.
    They've just packaged it better, and kept it mostly tamper proof i'd imagine.

    I'm not a fan of moving head lasers either myself, but I don't have too many issues with that one, providing they stick to the rigging instructions (just as for any fixture)
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    swamidog is online now Jr. Woodchuckington Janitor III, Esq.
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    PJ -

    Lightwave International is legit. Since you don't know the beam width and divergence, it is not appropriate to claim the product is unsafe. Please do a little more research before you make such accusations.

    Think of it as less of a laser projector and more of a spotlight with incredible color saturation and modulation.

    "Intrinsic audience scanning safeguards are permanently calibrated by Lightwave International to ensure Phenoms are always audience safe at a minimum distance of thirty feet (9.1m). No operator, hardware, or software error can defeat the intrinsic safety design once rigged. Any Phenom rigged thirty feet (9.1m) or more from the audience will always perform under the FDA CDRH regulated maximum permissible exposure."

    Quote Originally Posted by masterpj View Post
    i'm going to open a can of worms here because I think we should not leave this product ignored as it harms our industry.

    Recently I have been brought to attention about a product called: "The Phenom" as show on: http://www.lasershows.net/phenom/.
    The device I heard uses a 10watt laser source and uses a set of lenses which can be detached to obtain "they claim safe" divergence. They say no operator or laser company is needed.
    The information of the use of a 10 watt laser source is information directly from LDI

    This makes no sense and is a safety hazard.. If no laser operator or company is needed then who determines how many lenses should be attached or stacked to make the device crowd scanning safe?..
    There is also mention of no safety zones required, no nothing so the beams entering the crowd are as bright as the ones above them....

    I also hear things about moving heads now being allowed on lasers in the USA but this product is still being offered in the USA.. Laser projectors on moving heads are dangerous... especially in the hands of untrained/unqualified people who have no experience with laser use nor had the training to ensure safe operation.

    I have also heard of Lightwave International avoiding professional laser operators that want to evaluate this product or maybe even do MPE measurements.
    On top of this all I have heard Light Designers having horrory stories regarding involvement with LightWave International tech employees.
    My assumptions is that their claims are false or at least very questionable and they found a loophole to worm in their product to be sold and I think it needs re-evaluation or at least fierce discussion.

    I strongly believe what LightWave International is harming the laser entertainment industry purely for sales.
    Last edited by swamidog; 01-09-2015 at 13:16.
    suppose you're thinkin' about a plate o' shrimp. Suddenly someone'll say, like, plate, or shrimp, or plate o' shrimp out of the blue, no explanation. No point in lookin' for one, either. It's all part of a cosmic unconciousness.

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    Ummm... I think you might have missed something in translation here...

    ...REDACTED ...

    I'd expect that the claims are accurate and you've mis interpreted something.
    Last edited by WookieBoy; 01-12-2015 at 16:26. Reason: Redacted Incorrect statement due to too few hours sleep...
    If in doubt... Give it a clout?

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    soforene's Avatar
    soforene is offline The Troll formerly known as Herbert Von Poople-Futtocks
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterpj View Post
    ...The device I heard .......
    I also hear things .....
    I have also heard .......
    On top of this all I have heard ......
    My assumptions is .....
    I strongly believe ......
    So, just hearsay then.
    You should talk to your Pops about libel.

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    [[Closed thread]]
    Last edited by masterpj; 01-14-2015 at 06:50.

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    Quote Originally Posted by masterpj View Post
    I dont know my claims might be rushed but it concerns me when the lenses are detachable so always safe at 9.1 meter at that stage I don't know.
    what makes you think the lenses are detachable/interchangeable?
    suppose you're thinkin' about a plate o' shrimp. Suddenly someone'll say, like, plate, or shrimp, or plate o' shrimp out of the blue, no explanation. No point in lookin' for one, either. It's all part of a cosmic unconciousness.

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    Safe or not, can we agree that putting lasers in the hands of LD's takes away from our industry?

    Chris, didn't you spend many many hours becoming a LSO just recently? Isn't it great that now anyone can do safe crowd scanning lasershows?

    Isn't it great that now LD's can still have lasers without dealing with Laser guys?

    I'm happy that I spend many hours a week experimenting and creating new effects to make sure that things stay interesting.

    I'm happy to know that all of my hard work in design, and technology is now being sold as a come all be all package that:
    " Anyone that can rig a light can rig a Phenom"
    and my job and work becomes something of the past.

    I'm sure you have all had experiences where LD's have not been so respectful to you because they generally don't like laser guys, be it for one reason or another. This gives them the best reason in the world to stop hiring professional, and knowledgeable laserists.
    1st place ILDA 2013 awards "Multiscanner show"
    1st place ILDA 2014 awards "Multiscanner show"
    https://www.youtube.com/user/BronyBeamshows
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterpj View Post
    They showed it at LDI and it can be done in roughly 30 seconds.
    well, instead of making outrageous baseless accusations, consider contacting them and asking why/how it's safe instead of just slandering them. your post is doing a great disservice to a highly respected laser/lighting company.

    i was at the ilda 2014 when phenom was discussed. i have no doubt if there were legit safety concerns they would have been bought up... since lightwave was also there (some members were sitting at my table with me).
    suppose you're thinkin' about a plate o' shrimp. Suddenly someone'll say, like, plate, or shrimp, or plate o' shrimp out of the blue, no explanation. No point in lookin' for one, either. It's all part of a cosmic unconciousness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swamidog View Post
    what makes you think the lenses are detachable/interchangeable?
    In video they have it on,

    in picture they have it off.

    Seems to be held on externally.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    1st place ILDA 2013 awards "Multiscanner show"
    1st place ILDA 2014 awards "Multiscanner show"
    https://www.youtube.com/user/BronyBeamshows
    My start to the laser world
    9/15/2010

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