FB4 Released!

[rns0504]

As I mentioned earlier, I don't feel the need to get one yet and don't see a mad rush for individual laserists to start to grab them. Even in my video above, it sounds like the FB3 will continue to be supported and manufactured. As Bill said, "Plug it in to anything and... it just works". Where I think we'll see them most in say, year one at least, is being integrated into projectors from Kvant, Laserworld and some other large manufacturers (like 506's and Discoscan's) - maybe used for specialty applications and installs. I DO like that fact that it's got automatic IP addressing. (If I understand what that is....) Hopefully it means you just connect an Ethernet cable to your projector and then one to the computer and it simply recognizes it and works, just like an ILDA cable. Or, if you're using multiple projectors with FB4's and a router, it sets everything up automatically. I sure wouldn't want to fumble with having to mess with IP addresses and get frustrated trying to get everything "talking" to each other correctly.

Someone at FLEM also mentioned that the life expectancy of an OLED screen apparently is not that long which makes me wonder, if that's correct, why OLED was selected as the screen of choice.

I've heard quoted they are typically good for 5 years... with 8 hours of use per day. And that is to 'half brightness' which should still be quite useful. Since few use the projector that often, hopefully the screen should last the useful lifetime of the device

[White-Light]

I googled OLED lifetime and although that isn't necessarily the best way to get knowledge, I found this quoted lifetime on the Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLED#Disadvantages

The biggest technical problem for OLEDs was the limited lifetime of the organic materials. One 2008 technical report on an OLED TV panel found that "After 1,000 hours the blue luminance degraded by 12%, the red by 7% and the green by 8%."[67] In particular, blue OLEDs historically have had a lifetime of around 14,000 hours to half original brightness (five years at 8 hours a day) when used for flat-panel displays. This is lower than the typical lifetime of LCD, LED or PDP technology. Each currently is rated for about 25,000–40,000 hours to half brightness, depending on manufacturer and model.[68][69] Degradation occurs because of the accumulation of nonradiative recombination centers and luminescence quenchers in the emissive zone. It is said that the chemical breakdown in the semiconductors occurs in four steps: 1) recombination of charge carriers through the absorption of UV light, 2) homolytic dissociation, 3) subsequent radical addition reactions that form π radicals, and 4) disproportionation between two radicals resulting in hydrogen-atom transfer reactions.[70] However, some manufacturers' displays aim to increase the lifespan of OLED displays, pushing their expected life past that of LCD displays by improving light outcoupling, thus achieving the same brightness at a lower drive current.[71][72] In 2007, experimental OLEDs were created which can sustain 400 cd/m2 of luminance for over 198,000 hours for green OLEDs and 62,000 hours for blue OLEDs.[73]

Unfortunately, the above seems out of date, but at the most pessimistic estimate above, 8 hours a day (about equivalent to one nightclub event) the 1/2 life was 5 years, and most people I know only do shows on the weekend, which equates to a 1/2 life of around 18 years if you do Fri / Sat alone.

The best estimate, appears much much longer.

There also seems to be some question of burn in. If true, that's something I would be concerned about given that the display on the FB4 will be static if not being adjusted.

However, there are solutions that Pangolin may have / could implement:

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/1312...should-be-oled

LG and other manufacturers have since cracked it. It says that its OLED TVs now have a lifespan in normal viewing conditions of 30,000 before deterioration in brightness. That's around 10 years if you watch a bit more than around eight hours of TV a day, every day. And that's not in eco mode.

Screen burn was also a concern but LG has an algorithm that washes the screen each time it is put into standby mode, which is designed specifically to prevent just that.

Not sure what Pangolin have done, but it seems there are solutions.

The easiest one for screen burn would be to have a screensaver on the display that could be woken up from if you physically touched a button on the unit. I'm not so sure the screen wash solution would work as unlike a tv, the FB4 is likely to have the same image for 8 hours straight once any adjustment has been made. I also imagine a screensaver would increase lifetime as only the active pixels would be lit (each pixel on OLED is it's own light source), and that would be changing all the time with a Windows style screensaver so no pixel would be lit for any longer than the period at which any logo etc was in that region of the screen.

[JohnYayas]

I can't imagine replacement cost would be much for a tiny screen like that so as long as it is modular I wouldn't care one bit. Does the FB4 have a web page that you can browse to via the IP address or some utility to configure it? If it does the screen is not that useful. I never configure remote devices at the device console unless I have to.

[cyberb0b]

Just a little correction on Norty his post;

FB4 is sold in four versions, outlined below:
FB4 Standard includes the FB4 main board, OLED display, network port and SD card memory. $695
FB4 DMX includes the FB4 main board, OLED display, network port, SD card memory and DMX daughterboard. $755
FB4 ILDA includes the FB4 main board, OLED display, network port, SD card memory, and ILDA-in and ILDA-through daughterboard. $735
FB4 MAX includes the FB4 main board, OLED display, network port, SD card memory, DMX daughterboard and ILDA-in and ILDA-through daughterboard. $795

Also.. No need to worry about the OLED.

- The info on the display is not static.
Also the display is turned off most of the time, otherwise it could interrupt the show. There are 4 leds on it that show you the current status. Also there are anti burn-in measures in place.
- The DB25 Ilda in/trough is not just a plain daisy chain. Its going inside the FB4 its being processed and optimized, you can mod the output thats going back to the output DB25 port.
Also DB25 Ilda in is "Ilda in". With that I mean that there is no limitation on what controller you can connect to that DB25 subd con... Pangolin or non Pangolin.

[norty303]

Norty (and drm916), don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to argue with you. You are most familiar with what you do and how you do it.
But I just want to understand: How exactly does the FB4 not fit in you architecture?

I currently use a stage box holding multiple FB3's, which is connected to my computer by a usb extender. The stage box also deals with estop over ILDA.

So, I can expand my current setup by using more FB3's in the same way quite easily.

If I buy any FB4's I have 2 ways to use them:
1. Build them into projectors.
2. Build them into a stage box with a network switch.

If I do 1, I have to either fit an FB4 to every projector (I currently run pairs of projectors per FB3, so that would be expensive) or have 1 with FB4 and one 'dummy' projector as its pair. Not very versatile or standardised.
If I do 2, I have to either run the FB4 alongside my existing setup (extra cat5 run to stage as protocols are different) or replace the whole lot (VERY expensive) and we're not yet sure if FB4 can do estop over ILDA, which would mean making a lot of changes to my projector stock.

So, as I mentioned elsewhere, FB4 is probably good news if you are just building your control real estate, or looking to make sweeping changes, but not so easily integrated into existing methodologies.

[drm916]

I use the exact same sort of setup as Norty. So I would be in the same boat.

[cyberb0b]

Uhmm.. the thing is.. There is the FB4 that has an Ethernet cable in, and out of it come wires that you connect to your shutter, amps and so on. There is no DB25 ILDA connector coming out of the fb4.

So there is nothing going over ilda. There is no Ilda. There is an Extension board that has Ilda In and trough, but there is no ILDA.

As soon as (in QuickShow or BEYOND mode) the communication between the FB4 and the software is broken, output stops and the shutter closes.

[norty303]

I don't understand the point you're trying make I'm afraid Bob.
That functionality is specifically why it's awkward to use alongside existing gear.

I'm fairly sure the external version will have a DB25 connector on it to get ILDA signal to the projector

[cyberb0b]

I don't understand the point you're trying make I'm afraid Bob.
That functionality is specifically why it's awkward to use alongside existing gear.

I'm fairly sure the external version will have a DB25 connector on it to get ILDA signal to the projector

The thing i'm trying to say is.. Its a bit different in functionality and philosophy ..
Of course you can use it alongside existing gear.

Just as an example, you could run an Ethernet LAN TCP based USB extender from the front of house to the stage, then do a split between the usb hub and the FB4's.
But there are tons of possibilities of course.

The FB4 it self is conform normal Ethernet standards.
The Ethernet cable connected to the FB4 can use all wires.
I know people who used some wires for an interlock, just make sure the "mis used" ethernet wires don't end up on the FB4.

--

I cant speculate on the external version.. But yes, it would make sense to have ilda out on that .
But still, I think the same story will apply.. as soon as the connection is lost, output stops.


But really? 2 lasers on 1 FB3? How do you set individual bam zones for projectors?
If 1 projector fails, it takes the second one with it.

Hmm, 1 thing I learned a long time ago.. avoid making a single point of failure.
1 of the reasons I hate daisy chaining.

[Bradfo69]

Isn't a single cat5 from front of house to a stage box a single point of failure though? A cat 5 to me seems a bit more fragile that ILDA cables.

While I agree it's MUCH easier than the nightmare of running multiple ILDA cables, many people in the US that I know, tend to keep the FB3's (or .net boxes) at the control station and run individual ILDA cables to each projector. (That's what we do at SELEM.) That's also what I do with all of my shows. Yeah, it's perhaps antiquated but, it works. (Truth be told, I rarely see e-stop boxes in use but, that's letting the cat out of the bag. We know we "should".)

Now... I also realize the Europeans are often doing big shows with scads of projectors on stage whereas I don't see that much on this side of the pond. I see the European adoption of the FB4 built into the projector happening a lot faster than in the states. (That's a IMHO opinion though.)