You gotta be kidding

[Datsurb]

Attachment 47063Attachment 47064Hmmmm....thinking of actually buying this.

This the the laser and company, they say its an anolog laser.

I actually like the casing.

Input Voltage:AC90-245V
Frequency:50-60HZ
Power consumption:50W
Laser Power:R:635nm300mWG:532nm200MW B:450nm500W Analog modulation
Play Mode:Auto,sound active,DMX512,Master/slave,ILDA,SD Card
Scanning speed:0-30Kpps SD card:4G
Scanning angle:50°
lifetime:>8000h
Operation Temperature:10-35°C
Cooling Way:Fan cooling
Machine Size:360*280*220mm 10kG


Video link in youku:
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjkxMDQ2MDMy.html

This is the product:

http://blues-ocean.en.alibaba.com/pr...projector.html

What do you think Datsurb??

I think this is a fair amount of gear for the money. A also think all of the above are right. This is no gear for producing money, but for private pleshure, I`m shure it will do just fine. A reasonable starterkit, and in a pricerange where it is possible to modify, fiddle, doing those expensive trial and errors. It also looks like there is room in the box for doing some mods along the way. Can`t see the point in throwing in a couple of DT40, as long as the lightsource is the single block "flashlight". Im an also close to a 100% shure that this is not analog modulated, but uses a raster pattern. (PCM?) This phenomen is rather good documented in PL in various places. I also know that Wolfmax have attempted to modify the module to pure analog, but the 532nm green did not like the procedure. (as i seem to recall).

Nevertheless, this is a good startingpoint, and the climb of a steap and expensive learnigcurve.

[WolfMax]

My problem only came when I switched the input to the driver I was using from analogue to TTL. I believe when the input went from 0v to 5v the driver spiked and killed the diode (needless to say, I'm not using that driver anymore). With decent drivers set up correctly, I don't see any issues converting to analogue.

[planters]

Fine for home and playing but, no, I wouldn't consider this as a projector suitable enough to get paid to use. But, for just messing around in your living room, for a couple hundred dollars I wouldn't hesitate to give this a shot.

If you are a newcomer wanting to do laser shows professionally, so small venues and low cost, what would be a reasonable "entry level" projector? What would be the basic accessory kit such as hazers, moving lights, strobes, etc.?

(And to be truthful, the thought crossed my mind that, for the price, buying a dozen for what 1 good projector starts at and, running them all at once could be a hell of a nice show!) All 12 around a circle truss could be a poor mans nirvana for a couple weeks!

As an accessory, this Medusa would be a lot more impressive to an audience than just another, high quality, 5W RGB.

[Bradfo69]

If you are a newcomer wanting to do laser shows professionally, so small venues and low cost, what would be a reasonable "entry level" projector? What would be the basic accessory kit such as hazers, moving lights, strobes, etc.?

That answer sort of depends on the country but, my feeling is entry level for a small venue, at low cost would be:

1 or 3 RGB's in about a 750mW to 2 watt range. Maybe 2 watts as a center projector at 750mW for flanking. Yes, you can get away with 1 if you have some other lights. I think you want the widest possible scanners since in a small venue you have such a short throw. Since it comes out of the aperture at it's narrowest point and fans out, the further back you are, the better lasers are going to look. If you're dancing in a small venue, chances are you're within 20 feet of the laser and therefore it's not going to look particularly impressive being right underneath. Reasonable budget - $1500 for 1, $2500-$3000 for three. I'm not going to specify a model but, I'd look to Lightspace and perhaps a Venus. They've got a cheaper line but I don't recall the name.

Atmosphere: Go haze for the best bang for the buck. American DJ Haze Generator - $479. Supplement it with a Chauvet Hurricane HZ 900 for about $90 for adding that paisley look to fans, cones and boxes.

Control: For a beginner, for live work, you just simply can't beat Quickshow with an FB3 - Retail $599, Street: $400 - $500 (Call me a fan boy but, since I own most every control software out there, and until Grix or JohnYaya's builds good live functionality into their projects, Quickshow is simply your best bet. Bite the damn bullet and pay the money if you want to play in this game.

ILDA cable: $30. Power strips with surge protection and a couple good extension cords: Say, $60

Stands: You need to get those projectors up in the air. And you've got a lot of money relatively speaking, way up high on an inherently unstable platform, around dancing people who most likely will have had SOMETHING to alter their personality, judgement and common sense. You NEED stability. Yes, you can get away with something like an "On Stage" T stand and if the projectors are light enough, you shouldn't have as much of a tipping hazard. Say, $80 - $100 per stand. For a safer, cheaper alternative, consider a cheap truss: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_i...AdZBoCR-vw_wcB
for $89. You'll need some O clamps to hang them and best bet is Chauvet CLP-10 which run about $6.99 individually although, it's more economical to buy them in bulk. Do it, since if you spend any time in this game, you'll need more. You can catch 10 packs for $55 from places like IDNOW.com from time to time.

That gets you in the game with decent equipment. Now.... as I explain to every bride and client. Lasers are the "icing". They are not the cake. The music and your other lighting is really the cake. Lasers are the "wow" factor and you don't want to run them every song all night long or, it will quickly lose that "wow" and peoples interest. Therefore you need to have some other equipment in your arsenal. There are some things out there I feel are absolute "go to" lights and equipment.

First are American DJ Mystics. http://www.spectrumaudio.com/america...njNxoC5jrw_wcB Buy two. You want pairs of these things. The thing about the Mystics is there is so much versatility. You can light up walls, dance floor, ceiling and they look good in the air from a beam standpoint as well. You can set them on the floor, you can hang them.

Second would be 1 or preferably a pair of Chauvet Scorpion Storm MG's. Sadly this fixture has been discontinued but stock is still out there. http://www.blacklight.com/items/chst...hFFxoC8Zjw_wcB

Best bang for the buck as far as a laser you can scan an audience with without fear. STOOPID wide projections and movements. I often run them when the big beams are going overhead to still allow an immersive experience while still being reasonably safe.

I don't see a newbie jumping into moving heads as that's an expensive jump. Plus, to look decent, they really need to be "run" from a controller and, if you're running lasers, you really need to focus 110% on the lasers and not be distracted with other stuff. Plus, that's an item where you need multiples so, at a minimum, I see moving heads as being about a $2,000 leap to get in the game.

I also don't think a new person has to worry too much about strobes as you mentioned in your post. Two reasons.... one is it's just not that big of an effect any more and two, it's a lot of money for what should only be sparingly run maybe a total of 30 seconds out of a whole evening.

So, you're at about $3,300 with 1 laser and an entry level set up as far as I'm concerned if you're going to charge a client for something. I'd highly suggest having a few more non-coherent DJ type lights in the $100-$250 per fixture range just to be able to keep interest as just the 3 effects listed above will get old on an audience quickly. Look at lights on sales sites like IDNOW and then watch the Youtube video of the light in action. Then, start looking for it on eBay. Also, wait for holiday sales for the best deals and ALWAYS call to order. You often can get a better price by talking to them on the phone. The markup in that stuff is huge and these people are all wheelers and dealers. They'll do anything to earn your business. Play one against the other.

(I forgot haze/fog fluid so, figure another $25 per gallon for each of those.)

As an accessory, this Medusa would be a lot more impressive to an audience than just another, high quality, 5W RGB.

I actually highly agree with this statement. Yes, you often hear "less is more" but, by the same token, 6 or 8 of these well placed, is going to be a MUCH bigger "wow" factor than 1 more larger laser. The difference in brightness between a 1 watt and a 5 watt in a small venue is negligible.

[norty303]

Essentially, the same thing applies to lasers as applies to other lighting.

Given the choice between 1 really, really clever (read: expensive!) moving head fixture with 48 DMX channels, or 12x basic scanners, the 12x scanners wins out every time PROVIDING you have a control system capable of working them properly.

In my opinion it is ALL about the control, if you can spread effects, or fan heads, or bally-hoo, or whatever, you don't have the right control system. If you are spending less than $1000 on a desk/control system for moving lights, you should ask yourself if you've made the right choice - time may show you haven't.

Too many times I've seen lighting guys who've spend thousands on posh moving heads, and £100 on the cheapest DMX controller they could find, with the expected unimpressive results.

Likewise with lasers, if you want to use a few of them, expect to have to buy a few DACs and a software package that can run them effectively. A common lighting term is 'buskability' and it defines a desk that allows you to freestyle with the music, whatever gets thrown at you. This is where LivePro really shines (imho) and is the make or break feature for my laser software. Timelines have no place here, unless you're touring a known set list or have pre arranged set pieces.

If you're buying lights, never buy singles. Always buy at least pairs, better 4's, I tend to opt for 6 of each these days, as a nice spread between cost and coverage (e.g. between 4 - too few, and 8 - possibly don't get enough use).

I disagree on the strobes comment BTW, I've got 18KW of strobes and you can create a lot of different effects from lovely little flickers around the stage to full-on, melt your face off blinder effects where the room fills with ozone...


I guess from a UK guy, I should ask you to define 'small' venue, as I expect it's not quite as small as one of our 'small' venues.


Oh, and don't skimp on rigging or cables. In this case, if you want to do it properly, buy real truss, not disco Dave stuff - Global Truss is probably the most cost effective. IF your wind up lifts are under 4m max height or able to lift less than 70kg a piece they're probably not going to be big enough.
Cables, you'll probably want to buy a 100m reel of decent H07 sheathed cable and make up 3m, 5m and 10m lengths. In the UK the 16A Ceeform style connector is king, not sure about the standards in the States, but its usually NOT a domestic connector. IP44 rating or better would be useful.
DMX cables. Maybe a DMX buffer to reduce the length of individual chains, and make fault finding easier.

Really, in the last few years, lasers have become so cheap that it may be a case of 'you thought lasers was an expensive hobby, wait til you buy the lighting and rigging!'

[planters]

Those are very useful posts from two people who really know. Thanks!

I agree that it is becoming ever more clear that the laser, whether self built or turn key, is no longer the single, overwhelmingly complicated component. Without ions and 3 phase and water cooling the mid range CN laser projector costs as much as good moving head and they share a lot of the same control requirements.

Something else that probably starts to become clear is the need for a van and storage.

[norty303]

Just to add, the thing about the cable stock is if you get it right at the start, it will grow and last with you. It will also be a pleasure to deal with, almost coiling itself sometimes...
And it will also be worth something at the end of your tenure with it. A load of domestic extensions and cable reels from the hardware centre are not the thing, often using horrible PVC sheaths that go rock hard on a cold morning. seriously, I lament some of my cables when it has me in an anaconda-like death grip at 7am on a Sunday morning when I just want out of the venue and on to my bed 2 hour drive away.... you seriously question choices to save a few $$ at those moments...

I use a series of connector from a company called PCE called the black series. they are specifically designed for the theatre/event industry so they are as invisible in the rig as possible.

Best thing I ever did for the laser side of things was to build my 4x FB3 stage box with USB extender. Dealing with cat5 looms and a few much shorter ILDA cables (without having to resort to horribly expensive cable) is just a pleasure compared to running 4x 50m+ ILDA runs from front of house.

Build everything you can into cases, reduce the amount of stuff you have to plug in and set up every gig - buy dedicated computers/laptops and have them in cases with control surfaces permanently. Look at what the sound boys do, wheel in a few racks of amps, each with a pre-wired processor, throw the front and back off the racks, add power, connect speakers to patch panel, job done.

Storage is important, van not so much. I find I can do a lot of gigs in my people carrier and I rent a van when needed. I know someone who is a full time sound and lighting company, quite busy and he hires all his vehicles as needed.

[Bradfo69]

Yeah... storage is an issue. My staff is on my ass all the time about "all this crap" around here that I should sell. It's pretty bad where I'm hiding things these days.

I do think Norty and I are coming at it from two different perspective and two different audiences. Some of that may be the cultural differences and, as he said, what we define as small versus what he defines as small. My description was for the guy who is going to be doing lights in the typical ballroom here that holds about 200 people and might be 50 x 50 with maybe 12 foot ceilings. Or small club that holds 150 with a bar, dance floor and some booths for food. Someone that might make a few hundred per night.

I think Adam's description is more for the entry level professional and, I'd agree with his insights for that as well. If you're going to try and go after those 600- 1,500 person festivals (rather than 7,000-15,000 or more) then yes, it's probably spot on. But when you cross the line into global truss, you're spending more on truss than the entire budget I listed above so, I don't know if that's an "entry level" hobbiest, "I wanna get into lasers" new person or, someone planning on bigger things.

Fact is, for pretty much anything you want to get, you can't go wrong spending a little extra to get better. Global truss versus On Stage for example. Or, a quality haze machine versus a cheap Halloween fogger. Spend the money right and spend it once.

(Funny, I read Adam's post after posting mine and we both agree that paying extra for better quality is far superior in the long run. Cables, truss, cases, etc.)

[norty303]

Agreed, I learnt the hard way about buying the cheap gear - that said, some cheap stuff isn't necessarily bad, you just need some insight into what is or isn't crap.

I have a particular knack for picking up the good stuff cheap too, so although I run hazers that are £800 to buy new, I haven't paid more than £450 for any of them. I'm also happy to do a bit of maintenance so buying some stuff that needs a bit of love can pay dividends.

I guess the reason for saying go a bit bigger than you think you'll need is because invariably, you will end up taking a job that goes beyond where you thought you'd be, and that's where having slightly more 'pro' gear (or better truss, more weight limit to hang the 4 hired in moving heads that weight 40kg more than yours, etc...) will really make itself felt.

I refer again to resale value. Pro gear that lasts and is well looked after will pay itself back when you're done with it. There is a saying in the sound world that a 2nd hand name brand sound system of good condition will always be worth what you paid for it, and to some extents its true. The old Martin Audio H and WX series and Turbosound Flood/Flashlight rigs are still well respected and will earn you money for the investment. There is lighting gear like that too, although the Chinese do make a compelling case for buying new these days.

For lighting control, anything with Avo, Chamsys, Flying Pig or GrandMA will fit the bill. These days the 'PC with control wing' setup is the sensible route (compared to a dedicated desk) as you get functionality cheaper, with the option to upgrade the computing side of things as needed.

I have a lot of ebay saved searches, and over time, they pay off, but its a long game.

[Lassie]

Video I found on youtube from the Emma laser company building a projector.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dNZEXJat_U

They assured me my laser projector would be analog. I really starting to doubt the picture they supplied me with is of the model I ordered.

Edit:

I believe this is the projector internals.