The EK-DZ Advanced Laser Router!

[DZ]

Karl, I'm still not sure I understand the need for an e-stop or keyswitch on the Router. Perhaps there is some sort of mis-understanding here so hopefully this will help. The Router is completely incapable of producing an output on it's own. It absolutely requires a DAC attached in order for the interlock loops to close. I'm not sure how this Router is any different than having 6 or 8 DAC's running your projectors.

Norty, thank you for bringing up the interlock subject. I need to update my website to include information about that.

The price Brad mentioned is pretty much what it's going to be for the limited PL release. I really wish we could have done better but it is what it is, parts are not cheap if not purchased by the thousand.

[djeric68]

Great work on the router - I really want one but don't have the cash anytime soon. I do agree about the need for DMX through and the E-Stop, though.

OOPS! image too big, hit a chandelier and stagehands in ballroom! shut it off shut it off!

HOW DO I DO THAT???[/I] ( with a single action) My guy at the FOH controls would "probably" shutter the output as soon as the problem occurred, as we do try to pay attention during alignments, but again, from a regulatory and safety standpoint, the person making the adjustments absolutely needs to be able to E-stop the lasers if he fucks something up. Remember I'm playing devils advocate here. Most of us are quite capable of adding extra stuff inline to allow us to do that, but to me, the point in buying new gear, is to solve as many problems as possible and reduce all other extraneous gear.

I've performed literally thousands of events, and I see the safety issue with this router being the only real "functionality" issue. From a safety and a regulatory standpoint, anywhere you have the ability to make adjustments that could alter or effect safety, you need have the ability to cease all output. My e stop box is a small handheld type form factor. it would be sitting loose at the stage rack where this router would be in, and not be within inches of the knob that caused the problem. that is my concern.


Now as far as that scenario- I'm pretty sure your interface would allow it remotely but I have to ask- how do I bring up the projectors one by one to isolate the one that was misadjusted and maybe even start out with RGB values really low, so that I could fade in the projectors one by one to find which one was the problematic one. I get the feeling that can be done via DMX with this device, and that absolutely kicks ass for those with good consoles and good DMX patching and programming skills, but I also need to know if I could do it standing in front of it just as easy because I am one of those guys that has to call a lighting friend to come put new chases in my DMX controller . ( its my fault for having an ancient AMDJ one, LOL)

Side note- DZ, if I buy one, can you hack / redneck rig/ jury rig me an A-126 keyswitch anywhere on this router even if just in line with the power switch ( preferably with relay but hard switching of power is okay because I am after true worst case scenario shutoff only.)

How about adding a small momentary push button switch to the right of each front panel GAIN knob for each channel that acts like a "Mute" on an EQ, but in this case E-Stops only the projector/channel in question? This would be a digital input to your microprocessor. The firmware could add a turn on delay so that the beams don't autoMAGICally start shooting when the button is pressed again to "Un-Mute." Also, wouldn't flipping a hardwired AC Mains power switch de-energize the already mentioned relays and provide the "Shut it off now" function during setup and alignment? When powered back up, the firmware could automatically "Mute" all channels and then each channel would need to be intentionally enabled one at a time for setup/alignment. This would seem to be a safety feature that would be very useful since 1) by nature during setup and alignment you can't possible align each PJ at the same time 2) when all the PJs get enabled at the same time you have no way of knowing where they will be aimed (there is no home position like an intelligent light even with the gains at minimum) 3) it would appear to be a "best practice" not to enable a projector until you are ready to align it.

Just some thoughts I had when reading through this great thread. I really want one of your routers even though I can't afford it right now b/c I just bought another VENUS II from lightspace to go with my PLUTO.

I only have 4 ILDA projectors but this would give effects/possibilities I hadn't thought of before. Also with the DMX pass through it would allow me to integrate my 4 Mobolazers into the show control more easily without having extra cabling. Just a thought. I do like my beam tables and bounce mirrors!

I do however see one big problem with the 1 RU format...not enough room for the Huge "Powered by EK-DZ" Logo that deserves to be plastered on it. You need to promote yourself as much as possible and 2 rack spaces would give you room to do it - and to space the controls more ergonomically.

Feel free to ignore my ramblings, but keep up the good work on the router. I hope you sell a ton of these. Maybe you could get bought out, see a huge payday, buy more lasers with the cash, collect royalties and then these could be "Powered by..." someone else with the manufacturing & distribution channel already in place!

[norty303]

Are you getting the cases made by the people who do Front Panel Designer (Schaeffer in EU, not sure who it is in US)? It certainly looks remarkably similar to my stage box case.
If so, I reckon you could get them cheaper elsewhere, and get some of that cost down.

How about a kit of parts, so people can house them as they want, including the pots they want to use?

[mixedgas]

I agree with Karl.

Say You have two abstract consoles or two Pangolins feeding a router. You need to ESTOP the show for some strange reason. You might then have to hit TWO interlocks on two consoles or a console and a keyboard to shut down the show. Having all the ESTOP at one location to shut down ALL projectors at once makes great sense if your out on the road doing shows. When a distribution box feeds all the projectors, it becomes the ideal location for the interlock and BRS ESTOP.

Which brings me to a question. Do the outputs die to zero with pull down resistors (Say 10K or 100K ohms) if the power is shut off on your box?

Steve

[luxilid]

How fast can one switch/route the inputs using DMX? Has there been a test to determine this? I can imagine some cool effects with very fast chase sequences that run at speeds around 10-15Hz.

[DZ]

How about a kit of parts, so people can house them as they want, including the pots they want to use?

Hi norty, I received a PM the other day asking a similar question. That's not something Ed and I have discussed. At some point we may offer an OEM version but to start it will be a full blown product.

How fast can one switch/route the inputs using DMX? Has there been a test to determine this? I can imagine some cool effects with very fast chase sequences that run at speeds around 10-15Hz.

The non-technical version of the answer is that it's pretty damn fast! That said, I'll have to defer to Ed for the technical answer to that question.

Regarding the E-Stop/Keyswitch concern brought up by Karl. Ed and I discussed adding an external E-Stop to the Router. Here's what we can do, we can remove the externally accessible fuse. This would free up enough space on the rear of the enclosure to add a DB9 connector, just above the VGA port. It would then be a requirement to have either a loop-back plug or an E-Stop attached in order to satisfy the interlock loop to the DAC. So if the DAC is disconnected, E-Stop pressed or loop-back plug removed all output channel pins 4/17 would go open.

The fuse would be relocated and would be located within the Router. It would not be easily accessible.

I would like to make the E-Stop port a standard feature, or not. So either all the Routers will have this port or the fuse will remain where it is. So what do you guys think, is it worth having a redundant E-Stop plug on the back of this product? As far as expense, it would only add the cost of the DB9 and a jumper to the main PCB and wouldn't change the final price of the Router by much at all.

For the E-Stop device itself, that would be a very simple device to make, or there are several devices already on the market that would work. In fact, Stanwax sells a very nice E-Stop that also requires a key to reset.

[slicklasers]

How about everyone quits worrying about this box having an e-stop, key-switch or any other safety device, and just use the one you already are supposed to have on your projector. It's not like your FB3 has an E-Stop or key in it and not a single person complained about that. And as for the size getting adjusted during the event, well, that's why you are supposed to put up physical masking to stop the lasers from going where they are not supposed to. My opinion on this is that is is the job of the laser operator to make sure the setup is safe, not the manufacturer of the control platform.

[drm916]

How about everyone quits worrying about this box having an e-stop, key-switch or any other safety device, and just use the one you already are supposed to have on your projector. It's not like your FB3 has an E-Stop or key in it and not a single person complained about that. And as for the size getting adjusted during the event, well, that's why you are supposed to put up physical masking to stop the lasers from going where they are not supposed to. My opinion on this is that is is the job of the laser operator to make sure the setup is safe, not the manufacturer of the control platform.

My projectors all call for an estop at the db9 plug on the projector. This is part of their users manual and product report(s). So, technically I would still need to have an estop on each projector anyway. So the estop on the router device is a redundant estop for me. Having said that, I do not think it would be a bad additional. I could daisy chain it into my estop config or just use a bypass plug. It isn't a deal breaker for me but I do like the idea of having it as an option. I would rather have the estop and move the fuse internal.

[luxilid]

How about everyone quits worrying about this box having an e-stop, key-switch or any other safety device, and just use the one you already are supposed to have on your projector. It's not like your FB3 has an E-Stop or key in it and not a single person complained about that. And as for the size getting adjusted during the event, well, that's why you are supposed to put up physical masking to stop the lasers from going where they are not supposed to. My opinion on this is that is is the job of the laser operator to make sure the setup is safe, not the manufacturer of the control platform.

AMEN! I think this is a brilliant design between EK&DZ and they focused all their energy on to how this box functions and they did a fantastic job without the need for any feature-creep requests from the collective peanut gallery. They should keep it as is and it will sell extremely well in the professional world.
All this picking apart the design comes off a bit disingenuous, this will be an incredible tool that didn't even exist until now and has potential far greater than I think some people realize. As a professional lighting designer I can see many creative uses for this and I eagerly look forward to adding this to my creative toolbox.

[Stuka]

Given the option -

E-Stop with the fuse internally, assuming it wouldn't void any warranties to open the case and replace a fuse, should the need arise ...
Might be nice to have just a single E-Stop cable run that could shut down all the gear being used with the router.

That said, put me on the interested-buyers list, as is!!