New to forum, just bought a scanner

[dpetrillo]

Hello! I've been using this forum as a great resource for a little while now and recently decided to take the plunge and bought a DRGB-1500 from Goldenstar with the intention of using it for private shows in my apartment. (I intended to buy the DRGB1000 for safety but was upsold to the 1500) So far I've only purchased the laser itself with the intent to show it off next weekend on auto mode before investing in a DAC and deciding which software to try out. I have a couple questions:

Clearly this is a very powerful laser with 1W on the blue channel alone, I definitely will not be scanning any of my guests with it. My ceilings are high enough that I can restrict it to beam only above peoples heads by a foot or so. After reading various safety warnings, it seems like there may still be safety issues in such a confined place (25 ft long room) and with fairly glossy white paint on the walls, I'm still concerned about reflections and bounces being too bright. Understanding that the true power of a Chinese laser is unknown and the the safety of everyone is paramount, do you have any recommendations on this beyond the commonly referenced laser safety pages?

If anyone is in the new york city area around the end of next week (July 9-11) and wants some free beer or Chinese food in exchange for some expertise, I'd be much obliged.

My only experience with lasers are hand held, of which I have a pretty powerful Chinese 445 and various others, which I enjoy but respect for their dangerous nature.

[Bradfo69]

Since you don't have any way to control it other than the built in frames, you do have a legitimate reason for concern. Often they contain a whole series of frames that it just sort of scrolls through either on sound active or some sort of auto mode and, they'll change every second or two. The problem is while some may be small, some may be large, some will be graphics and some will be beams. Depending on the number of built in frames, you could sit and watch it for 10 minutes to determine what the lowest point is a beam may hit and then, in minute 15, a frame pops up that's even larger and then, boom, you've got a scanned audience. The glossy white paint doesn't really bother me because the specular reflection of a glossy painted wall is still going to be safe up to a pretty ridiculously high power. I recall in our LSO class we talked about it and, most likely you couldn't look at the wall since the spot would be so bright before any possible damage should occur.

What you have to worry about with the beams only being a foot overhead is, they're still within arms reach so, someone holding up an aluminum beer can or a glass could cause a reflection problem. And whose to say someone doesn't have a 12" vertical leap if you're all drinking and dancing.

And no... you don't want to scan them in that small a space. Take for example just the blue. At a watt and lets say even a crappy 1.6mrad divergence, you're guests should still be 459 feet away from the projector. That's a football field and a half.

So, where does that leave you with your dilemma? Keep the beams as high as you can. Get something to simply mask the lower half of the aperture window so, they "CAN"T' possibly go down towards the guests and if someone just happens to act like a nit wit, just turn it off.

Once you get proper software and a DAC, one of the things you can do is manually lower the brightness for your room so, you'll be able to back it down a little.

[dpetrillo]

Thank you for your quick and extensive reply. I do intend to mask the aperature in combination with aiming it up by a few degrees and just accept thay a lot of some of the frames will be cut off. I feel better about doing this and will make sure it's out of jumping range for people and probably reserve it for earlier in the night.

I forgot to mention that it will have an SD card slot so it might be possible to find and download a beam show that has a flatter overall profile and then mask and aim accordingly to get a better effect.

[Stuka]

Just to add to Brad's post -

Once you add a DAC & controller package, you will have a LOT more control over the projector.
Most decent laser software uses some implementation of a "zones" feature that lets you designate very specific target locations for the beam output.
Once that is setup, a safety mask could be as simple as taping some blackened foil just below the beam output, which would act as a laser barrier in the rare case that the projector experiences a scanner or control malfunction.

Once you have a proper controller package, chances are you'll rarely if ever go back to using the built-in SD card!
Several options out there for decent controller packages, but please ~
Do NOT waste your money on any controller package that includes the name ""iShow" in the description!!

And, as Brad alluded to -
No audience scanning with that rig!
It is DEFINITELY powerful enough to damage eyes at a considerable distance, and the requirements to audience scan safely are VERY steep.
(There is a reason that few legitimate pro laserists in the US ever audience scan!!)

Trust me -
You can have a VERY cool laser show without exposing the audience (or yourself!) directly to the beams, even in a home environment with limited space.

One other thing you might want to consider -

Get a smoke/fog machine - even a cheap party-store variety to just get you started is better than nothing.
As cool as graphics are, for many laserists a large part of the magic is to put the beams in the air overhead, and to REALLY appreciate that you need a bit of smoke.

Good luck with the adventure -
You've definitely come to the right place!!

Welcome aboard the money pit express!!

Randy

[dsli_jon]

Hi dp -

Welcome to PL.. Buckle yer seatbelt, and burn your wallet..

..If anyone is in the new york city area..

Please contact Sir John http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...p/590-VJ-AIWAZ ..He's in Brooklyn, and knows his safety / Fed Regs well, and will also steer you straight as-to the NYS Regs / requirements, as well.. Kudos to you for 'taking the high road', and thinking of your Patrons' safety / well-being - first - before any 'bottom-line' / $$-gains, etc.. Best-practices always 'pay off' in the long-run..

Fwiw.. cheers..
j

[dpetrillo]

A million thanks to all of you. I will definitely have a fog machine in the room and look forward to some sweet beam effects.

I've been slowly digesting the options for a DAC and software and can tell this is going to get out of hand quickly. I really appreciate how good of a resource this form has been so far.

[Bradfo69]

There are those who will chime in about other solutions but, take a long hard look at Pangolin's Quickshow.

I own the majority of software and DAC combinations out there and, I fully appreciate the capabilities some of them have - LSX for example is extremely powerful but, it's not simple to learn and understand. Spaghetti is another good solid basic program but doesn't have the wide range of features that Quickshow does. It's all different strokes for different folks and that's totally fine but, for ease of use for a beginner (or pro really), variety of effects it does WELL, customer support, safety features, rock solid reliability, multiple tutorial videos, vast amount of freely available content and resale value should you decide down the road you've lost interest, it's worth the extra little bit of money over other solutions. Gitcha one!


Oh.... and I would be remiss if I didn't make one other crazy suggestion. In about six weeks... think about taking a couple days and come down to North Carolina to SELEM. It will be an absolutely mind blowing experience and HUGELY informative if you're into lasers in the least little bit. It's only about a 9 hour drive. See here:

http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...15-Sign-up-now!

[Stuka]

Ditto to everything Brad just said!!

Another point about the QuickShow package (which is the QuickShow software and a FB3 controller)-
That package has a direct upgrade path to Pangolin's flagship software suite Beyond, so if you start out with QuickShow, you won't need to worry about software and hardware obsolescence for a VERY long time!!

AND -
what he said about SELEM -
It will truly blow your mind - in a good way ...

[colouredmirrorball]

There are those who will chime in about other solutions but, take a long hard look at Pangolin's Quickshow.

- LSX for example is extremely powerful but, it's not simple to learn and understand.

I would say:

Quickshow if you want a simple program that just works straight out of the box and displays frames, effects and what not

LSX if you don't mind spending some extra time creating the effects you want

Quickshow is aimed towards DJs, LJs and beginner users who just want something to output to their laser. Downside is its price (more than LSX basic + DAC) and if you want to control another projector, you need to buy a full-priced controller card including the software again. Another big downside is that it's lockin: you can only use the Quickshow control card (FB3/4) with Pangolin software. LSX on the other hand costs less than half (of course depending on source) and works with a large variety of controllers.

Beyond sure is powerful and easier to use than LSX but also a lot more expensive. But you wouldn't miss out on possibilities if you decide against it: for example Beyond has a great 3D engine but you could use Blender and Ild Sos (included in LSX) to get equally good results.

Also it's not like LSX is hard to use, don't be discouraged! It's an awesome program.

You'll have to sit down and think about what you want: playing effects and cues on the laser or doing something more creative?

It's a pity Pangolin insists on locking their controllers to their software, otherwise I'd say get both...

[dpetrillo]

come down to North Carolina to SELEM.

Just so happen to be in that area at that time and am seriously looking into adding this to my agenda for at least a day or two. Thank very much for the heads up, it looks awesome.

It's a pity Pangolin insists on locking their controllers to their software

Agreed; yuck.

I'm probably not going to go with the reliable stalwart program solution, however good and resalable it may be. That appears to be the perfect solution for someone who wants to learn the art properly, it's just not me. I don't intend to program tons of shows and put them on for audiences outside of smaller private venues. I also submit that I don't have the attention span to design artistic shows using that software, I will probably just remix other stuff if at all. Having even rudimentary hardware and programming experience, I basically have to have some kind of extensibility option to justify spending any kind of money on it. As you said, different strokes. I do understand that a projector like the one I bought without good software and a DAC seems like a huge waste of money.

I haven't considered every single option but the newer DAC's seem appealing, RIYA, Ether Dream, etc. I would like the ability to try out and experiment with the various open source softwares out there, or connect an arduino or raspi to the DAC in order to do something nonstandard with it. I would undoubtedly also get one of the less expensive pieces of software in order to get up to speed, like Spaghetti or LSX, even though LSX is a bit too expensive unless I will get a lot of use out of it. There's probably more information on this forum about all of these options as there is on the mfg's own website (especially since RIYA's is currently down, why is that?) Talk about money/time pit. Thanks again, everyone.