Good for you - but the conclusion that the tools make the craftsman maybe just a correlation rather than cause and effect...
Senior Member
Good for you - but the conclusion that the tools make the craftsman maybe just a correlation rather than cause and effect...
"There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot, but there are others who, with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun." Pablo Picasso
Senior Member
Tools can help a craftsman a great deal but you have to start with a craftsman to begin with.Originally Posted by laserist
@Brad, you nailed the reason why I don't visit the show portal very often. It's nice to see what others are doing but 9/10 times, I see very little original content. It's also the same reason why I open up Quickshow or Beyond and wipe the workspace and start fresh. I am done with the stock cues, have been for a while. The stock content is a great set of training wheels. It's a good demo to show what can be done with the software. I despise that many continue to make shows with it even after they've been using it for a while.
@Swami... Yep. Fast food shows. It's the laser equivalent of flipping frozen burger patties. I am afraid that most of the people who buy Quickshow are content to remain a fry-cook instead of striving to be a chef. I would almost say that Quickshow is not for laserists. It's for DJs and lighting guys that don't know much about lasers but know enough to strap a couple of projectors to a lighting truss and button mash. That is not to say that good shows can't be created with Quickshow but many of the tools provided are suited toward DJs and live music events. Beyond, on the other hand, is a full kitchen with all the utensils. It's up to the operator if they want to continue to flip burger or create.
Last edited by absolom7691; 07-24-2015 at 12:48.
If you're the smartest person in the room, then you're in the wrong room.
Jr. Woodchuckington Janitor III, Esq.
i agree on both counts. to continue the analogy, i think flipping burgers is bad for the industry.
suppose you're thinkin' about a plate o' shrimp. Suddenly someone'll say, like, plate, or shrimp, or plate o' shrimp out of the blue, no explanation. No point in lookin' for one, either. It's all part of a cosmic unconciousness.
Senior Member
" 15 characters"
Last edited by Laser Wizardry; 11-13-2015 at 12:54.
Jr. Woodchuckington Janitor III, Esq.
photonic cows make the best burgers
suppose you're thinkin' about a plate o' shrimp. Suddenly someone'll say, like, plate, or shrimp, or plate o' shrimp out of the blue, no explanation. No point in lookin' for one, either. It's all part of a cosmic unconciousness.
Senior Member
There are lots of great points made here and I heartily agree. Admittedly, my first show from many years ago had a flying winged heart, but I was young(er) then and hadn't seen enough lasershow material at that point to know what an atrocity I was committing.I haven't done it again since!
In regards to beam shows specifically, I believe it is extremely difficult to make a great single projector show. ILDA award videos show some beautiful work as do some work coming from guys like Lunaphase and Whiteg, but I find multi-projector shows as much easier to make interesting.
On that note, simply duplicating the same track to multiple projectors with varying X and Y flips does not make a show a multi-projector show. As long as you have the source (or even if you don't when combined with the EK/DZ router or software equivalents and lots of DACs) you can make a much more interesting multi-projector show from a single projector show source. I've made around 150 6-projector shows from single projector shows in the LSX stock, Medialas stock and PL posted shows. By varying what goes to each projector, how's its oriented and adjusting color by projector, I've found you can make a decent single-projector beamshow much more interesting. SELEM attendees can see and judge for themselves next month.
All of this said, shows written to be multi-projector shows are still more interesting on average in my opinion. Best of all are the shows that you write yourself. It doesn't really matter if anyone else likes them or not as long as it is your material and you enjoy watching it.
-David
Last edited by dkumpula; 07-24-2015 at 15:22.
"Help, help, I'm being repressed!"
el gringo loco
You guys just need to make the pilgrimage out to Laserium, that's all I have to say...Layering, variety in 'pace, pitch (color) & power' are SUCH powerful - and Totally under-utilized 'tricks' / techniques - these days.. People / Co's need to re-connect / re-learn the meaning of the term Laser SHOW, imho.. XY-scans are only 'One instrument in the orchestra', and it seems practically everyone in the 'new Gen' has been conditioned to think 'all you need is a dollar and a beam'
..I know Sir Brian (laserist) has been working on a *mind-blowing* 'background fx projector', that, just seeing the sketches-for, left my creative-heart racing.. And I've been toying with a moving-belt, fluid-basin-fed '3D laser clouds' fx-generator that - even with just a few quick tests - literally had me jumping up an down like a 5 yr old in a puddle.. just SO much you can do when you start 'thinking outside the scan'...
..Remember, ya'll are invited out to the Van Nuys Studios - first round of Tickets on me -and I really, truly, think we could hold / create a *true* 'Laser Light SHOW School' / classes, here, and all 'Elders / Show-Craftsman / Seasoned-vets' would be welcome to 'share' / teach, not just 'Laserium-centric' ideas / ideals, etc.. ie: These are just some quick-shots I took on my crappy 'i4s' / glommed-together in P-Shop..
..Look 'boring' / lousy to You?
...jus sayin'
j
....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...
Senior Member
I agree on most of your points except this one. I have seen some fantastic beam shows with only one beam table. If you scatter some bounce mirrors around along with a good beamtable with an XY pair, one projector could so some amazing things.
+1....million
If you're the smartest person in the room, then you're in the wrong room.
Fair enough. One would hope so.
I wasn't aware of that. I'm not knocking Moncha. Hell, I've bought three DAC's. It's not bad software and I have seen some very nice shows created with it. As a matter of fact, a large number of my laser gigs have been sold to clients using a show created and played from Moncha. There are some things I feel it should really have though and, knowing it was designed as a DJ tool it's even more important that it should probably have it. I'm not found a way to ensure that when I play someone's Moncha show that I'm not going to suddenly find a cue being displayed MUCH larger than I ever expected (or outside where I expect it) and have laser light going in places it has no business being. I have to be sure to run the entire show with no one around and establish lowest point in the show and adjust the projector or, more accurately my DZ splitter gain control to insure it CAN'T get into an audience. From an ease of use standpoint though, would you agree that the timeline in Quickshow is better than what is supplied in Moncha?2) Moncha was designed to be a DJ tool. The original version only had the cues. There was no timeline. Guess who persuaded Showtacle to add a timeline. This guy! The design interface was meant to allow creating animations form lines, squares, etc. So, the fact that Moncha shows have a lot of that is the reason why.
Again, also fair. Although, I would at least like to think that if someone is going to take the time and trouble to upload their show to Pangolin's site, that is should be better than some of what I've found. I will disagree somewhat though, in that if you happen to be using a show from the portal on a paid gig that, (I) have a problem. Buffo would likely argue that as well... an example being the Newton show last year. There ARE good shows on the portal and some are very appealing to an audience so, sprinkling in a good show from a source such as that, I don't view as bad. I know Adam even provides potential clients with previews of shows and it's entirely possible the client may very much like a show that came from the portal.3) These free show portals, ftp sites, etc are the equivalent of a refrigerator that your kids put their artwork on. Grabbing content from these places and expecting to have a lot of great useful material makes about as much sense as raiding your neighborhood and pulling the artwork off of everyone's refrigerator. If you just want some stuff to watch at home, it's pretty acceptable. If you are planning on showing it to a bunch of laser show snobs or doing paid gigs and using it then well, you're the one with the problem.
Yes, I do feel fortunate for the quality stuff that has been so graciously provided. It takes a lot of time to create a good show and we're lucky that those individuals are willing to share them. Had it not been for the simplistic ease of use of Quickshow though, I would STILL probably have not tackled trying to do something in LD2000. And as a result of the experience with Quickshow, I'm not as intimidated to tackle it, or Beyond or... what I'm enjoying now, which is getting more proficient in using the tools in Quickshow and to a lesser degree, Beyond to get away from stock cues. Dabbling with LSX is at least on the horizon.4) Most people aren't artists and most people into lasers are far from being artists. A very small portion of these people have the patience or talent to make a beautiful show. Not that they can't if they really try and spend the time, but drawing frames and creating shows is not what attracts them to this hobby. Laser people are kind of like the motor heads who have fast cars with crappy interiors. You should be happy that you even have something to download. When I first got into this it was hard enough just to find 10 shows, of any quality.
Yup. Goes without saying. Some of the best people on the planet happen to reside here.That said, I know people like to bitch. So, I still love you all.
PM Sent...
Senior Member
I do not see your name on the SELEM attendee list as yet, Master Jon. Are you planning on attending? If so, can we get you to speak for a bit on these topics?You guys just need to make the pilgrimage out to Laserium, that's all I have to say...
I thoroughly enjoyed your well attended chat and demo last year and would love to hear more of both old and new techniques.
-David
"Help, help, I'm being repressed!"
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bradfo69