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Thread: Greetings from Arctos Lasertechnik!

  1. #1
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    Default Greetings from Arctos Lasertechnik!

    Hello all,

    Greetings from Bavaria! Many of you already have heard of Arctos Lasertechnik. However, for many years, other than a few trade shows, we've stayed in the background, keeping our heads down, in order to make the finest, most reliable projectors we possibly can.

    Instead of being rather mythical, the purpose of being here, is to listen to the community, bring a public face to Arctos, to show what we're up to, what we have to offer, make it easier to contact us and inform the community about how we can help you. Not everyone uses or likes facebook, but you can also see us there too. http://www.facebook.com/arctoslaser
    We also have a website, which is in the process of being overhauled over the next months. www.arctoslaser.de

    I understand that the primary focus here is DIY. Scratch built lasers, sometimes OEM sources, tinkering, experimentation - you name it. It's always awesome to see what goes on here. Most of us laser addicts and enthusiasts, started somewhere in this field. Plenty of professionals started in the same way, myself included, having being a member here since 2008, going on to form my own, leading laser show company since.


    After speaking to a number of community members, we have found a few misconceptions about Arctos, mostly to do with pricing. People think our projectors are unaffordable, thus don't even consider Arctos from the outset. Sure, things were not cheap in mid to late 2000s, I also remember then, that 200mW of 473nm DPSS blue, from China, was ~$6000USD, if you were lucky.
    Things surely have changed these days.

    If you're in the professional market, for other established brands like Kvant, RGB Lasersystem, Swisslas, Rti, HB Laser, Sollinger, Lightline or similar, you may be very surprised to find out, that you can also include Arctos Lasertechnik to your consideration list. Prices are much more affordable these days, especially considering the absolutely zero compromises in quality, plus proven touring grade reliability, which we specialise in and excel at. In some cases, we can match or better the pricing, from some aforementioned manufacturers.

    We typically build professional orientated projectors in the 3.25-64W+ range.
    OEM modules from ~1.5-12W+.
    Laser arrays from 1.2W to 30W+ RGB monsters.
    Also working on new, compact, landmark/outdoor laser projectors, pushing the limits of optical technology, with practically unrivalled beam quality, in the double to three figure watt range and possibly beyond.
    Not to mention, currently producing some touring grade 3.25-7.5W lasers, which you can take in your carry on luggage. We even have a new, 15W full diode projector, stuffed full of the latest pangolin goodies, which is the size of two small shoe boxes - you can take two with you on a flight without an issue. More on that very soon.

    We have a full CNC setup with highly skilled metalworkers, CAD drawers, CNC in 5 + 3 axis, along with a new CNC lathe arriving soon. Not to forget our in house, excellent electronics engineers, amazing optical engineers, even a laser cat! A vast majority of our projector components are therefore made in house (sadly, not made by the cat).
    Most of what we do is custom, so if you want your dream projector to come to life, if technology allows, we are happy to make your dreams a reality.

    Another very important, often overlooked or unknown part of the Arctos experience, is the support network. We assist you in many ways, going above and beyond the support you may find elsewhere. E.g. In one very rare case, a projector part was personally flown out for extremely urgent replacement. We are committed to seeing you succeed in your laser business, it is a symbiotic relationship. Buying an Arctos projector, opens you up to an exclusive network of solutions, making it simple to scale your shows, especially if you don't have enough equipment just yet, for that next big gig!


    So, if you have any questions, comments, feedback, ideas or just want to say hi - Arctos is here to listen.

    Thank you for your time and I look forward to interacting with you all.

    With kindest regards from Bavaria,

    -Tristan, Arctos Lasertechnik

  2. #2
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    Thanks for the introduction, so refreshing compared to what usually appears as SPAM by other sellers.
    leading in trailing technology

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by polishedball View Post
    Thanks for the introduction, so refreshing compared to what usually appears as SPAM by other sellers.
    You're welcome. We don't want to spam products or services either - this is a discussion board, not just a bazaar!

  4. #4
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    Welcome arctos, I'm a big fan

    I'd/the forum would love to know some red module prices.

    If we knew the price we could consider buying
    Eat Sleep Lase Repeat

  5. #5
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    Bradfo69 is offline Pending BST Forum Purchases: $47,127,283.53
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    There are some questions that perhaps a number of us have based on the past few years history that might be worth addressing here since you have taken the time to write such a nice introduction. First concerns those of us in the US. What is the present status of getting US legal varianced projectors? At one point, I believe there were some but, a couple of years ago, Arctos was know to have some problems with the CDRH and had some variances pulled. I don't know the entire story so some clarification would be welcome.
    .
    In addition, you no doubt have heard about Arctos (in connection with Kvant) being rumored to be trying to sue certain manufactures for patent infringement you claim to have on the simple process of "knife-edging" multiple laser diodes. The understanding is that people were knife edging long before Arctos claimed they came up with the idea and it's pretty hard to find any laser manufacturer in the world that isn't doing it today. Some clarity on this situation and Arctos's position would be welcome as well.
    .
    Thanks and welcome (back!) And yes, we're all probably interested in more information/pricing regarding red modules!
    PM Sent...

  6. #6
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    Hi Andy, thanks for the kind comment and support.

    Need to know what power people are after and we can work on a price. Could even work on a group buy, if there is enough interest. Typically build up to 8W, any bigger and it's more practical to go open deck, aka a full projector build.

    TECs & drivers are internal, just needs to be mounted on a heat sink.

    The 3 axis is actually spitting out some new blue housings right now! Bit slimmer and smaller than the old ones.

    As any good laser thread is nothing without some laser por..pictures, have attached a shot of one of the old blue housings. New ones can be screwed down, around where current cover screws are, or using compact brackets on the lip pictured. Brackets are small, so you can offset them to get another module right next door

    Cheers.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails blue oem module old.jpg  


  7. #7
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    a range of powers would be good to cater for everyone.

    so smallest probably up to 5w
    Eat Sleep Lase Repeat

  8. #8
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    Welcome, great to see you here and thank you for such a comprehensive introduction. I have to admit to being in awe of some of the skills employed in your products, they are works of art. With a bit more practice you might even get them as good as Andy_Con's one day (I do joke of course, sorry Andy, no offence meant ).
    Quote: "There is a theory which states that if ever, for any reason, anyone discovers what exactly the Universe is for and why it is here it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another that states that this has already happened.... Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

  9. #9
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    Sure thing Andy, will work on this with the CEO tomorrow and respond here in due course.


    Hello Brad,

    Thanks for the warm welcome and questions - had a feeling these two would pop up!

    First up, CDRH/FDA. Arctos is actually on an FDA import blacklist. Considering we never imported Arctos branded projectors directly, this is very odd indeed! There is an opportunity to find out why though, in due course. We first have to resolve this before we can proceed further. That said, it's possible for end users to certify their own projector, produced under their own name, e.g. Lightwave Prism series, which is possibly how you have seen them before. Steps were taken to rectify this last year, however this stalled out, as things became absolutely hectic here. I am in Germany until mid December, vigorously pursuing this now (#1 goal!), along with resources now dedicated to this, so we can begin to cater to US customers directly, without the above hassle. We look forward to this happening, working closer with US laserists and enthusiasts.

    When we have some news, PL will be first to know about it.


    Regarding current legal issues, I can shed some light, however this is something we'd rather not go into too much detail at this point. We are working on a proper official response, particularly to the ILDA mailing list side of things. I feel that not answering this question would be in bad character - we stand in truth and honour, much like when quoting specifications. No sketchy stuff. Not answering this tricky question, could create doubts about our integrity, which is exactly the opposite of the purpose of our new found presence, so please take this as an unofficial summary for now.

    First up, this issue (along with other issues surrounding it) has disgusted many in the industry. It's not healthy for anyone involved, we don't want to be involved in it either! We'd rather focus on new designs and building awesome lasers.
    The process was actually initiated by Kvant legal team, they found that their units were being cloned, basically to the screws in the housing, around a month after releasing new models, then manufactured in China, being sold in Europe, at around ~25% of the price of a Kvant unit, which we have no idea how they manage to do at all, as even subtracting a much higher labour rate, the costs are far higher when using quality materials and build process on an original unit. Actions like this damage the industry severely - you may as well not R&D, as you can't recoup the investment, then everything begins to stagnate. If you clone a projector or design to this level, without R&D, then make it at reduced labour costs, possibly with substandard materials + components, there is no way a Western based company can compete. Not to mention potential safety issues arising with this in mind.

    As Arctos has its' name on the patents, unfortunately, we also have to be involved from a legal side of things. An offer was made to settle at $200 per unit, not backdated historically, only from February this year when the negotiation process began to go awry. This has been rejected, as it allegedly would put the company involved out of business, so this is still in process. Laughable response really, if $200 per projector, is enough margin to put someone out of business, then they'd be nearly closing the doors by day to day operation as it is.

    Regarding the actual patent, after past legal negotiations, Arctos and Kvant put aside their differences to share the EU patent currently. I can't comment on the alleged knife edging prior art issue you bring up, as the patent granted, has been thoroughly tested by the patent office. There is more to the patent than just knife edging, in the same vein that there is more to our projector design (far more!), than simply what is contained in that Arctos patent. That's just the tip of the iceberg as far as the build approach goes. Put it this way, the more time I spend with Arctos, the more I'm glad that I didn't DIY for professional use. There's so much more going on inside, which doesn't appear immediately obvious.


    Another issue at hand, were recent images, showing that someone has been placing Arctos stickers, with fake variance/CDRH numbers, on modules inside lasers and a whole host of other potentially negative actions. As answered above, Arctos does not have a CDRH number so it's obviously fake from the get go, in addition, Arctos brand is protected by trademark, both EU and USA, so this is a big no-no and under further investigation. We're glad that most people know these are not Arctos projectors, however for newcomers it could be damaging to Arctos. Main thing to take from this, is that at this point, Arctos doesn't plaster stickers all over everything. This is the same approach as the housing posted above. Most housings are plain black, with minimum stickers required for legal use. If there was an Arctos logo by request, it'd be CNC or laser cut into the housing or casing. Some very old models had logos printed on the unit. If you are unsure of the authenticity of an Arctos unit for sale, either new or second hand, we'd be glad to verify the serial number and laser for you. Please do not hesitate to ask us.

    And in summary, I have a feeling a few people here are worried that we are on the board, thinking they will be getting a letter in the mail. Don't worry, we've been looking at this board for many, many years. Other than this current issue (which we were effectively dragged into), Arctos has not taken any legal action, since pre-2011, when a change of ownership occurred. Off the top of my head, it was 2008 or so when there was last any action, I wasn't part of Arctos then, so take that with a grain of salt.
    Effectively, we don't want to be the scary bad guys, sending out notices. We certainly will not prosecute individuals, people tinkering around can be potential future customers, practically every professional I know started in the laser industry, via a similar way! However, the above issues, I think most would agree, are simply unacceptable; it damages the industry, damages creativity, it's certainly not something that the laser manufacturing industry can continue forward with, as in any other industry where such practices could take place. You don't see Hyundai cloning a Toyota for 25% of the price, without permission or severe legal ramifications to recoup damages.

    We simply want to work closer with the community, let the community get a taste of what we have been up to recently, plus to lay at rest those old perceptions and issues from days bygone.

    Hope this clears that all up for now!


    Will be getting the red module pricing sorted tomorrow. If there's enough people, we can look at doing a production run, then we can pass the savings on to PL. My camera battery (left it back home!) is arriving next week, so even a chance I can make a small production documentary about it - from aluminium stock to finished module, obviously without showing all the secrets involved! We have much pride in what we do here, so it'd be awesome to show some of the work that goes into these systems. It's easy to see just a power level plus a price, not the engineering, time and plenty of hand work which goes into each system we make.
    Also we can even do some custom CNC engraving.. e.g. a PL edition, big PL smiley, whatever, even individual CNC logos, e.g. user name/company name. I'd also be happy to donate some of the proceeds to keeping this wonderful place running. Have contacted the janitor in the past regarding this, but received no response so far.


    I hope this clears up a few things and we can start with a fresh page in the book. Thank you for your time to check out Arctos and your questions.

    Dinner time for me.

    Prost!
    Last edited by ArctosLaser; 09-24-2015 at 16:45.

  10. #10
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    " 15 characters"
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails SEACRET LASERS.JPG  

    Last edited by Laser Wizardry; 11-13-2015 at 12:57.

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