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Thread: converting a regular mirror to a first surface one

  1. #11
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    This thread prompted me to think of a reason to add a couple dozen bounce mirrors to my environment. I've got box of 12"x12" mirror tiles from Lowes sitting in the attic, so I'll give it a go this weekend. Even if the surface isn't perfect, for simple bouncing of tight beams, that should be adequate. Now to find some orange peel oil spray. . .

    <Edit> I found the product this guy was using after a quick search. It is sold as an air freshener. http://www.walmart.com/ip/15724124?w...341232&veh=sem
    Last edited by dkumpula; 11-03-2015 at 04:50.
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  2. #12
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    Don't forget reflectance.

    About the air freshner, most have butane, isobutane and propane in them. I don't think there's anything exclusive in the one he used which will be necessary to remove the goo. I've removed paint removers with acetone before, unless acetone reacts with the aluminum coating I don't see why you'd need that air freshner.

  3. #13
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    The orange peel oil is used as an environmentally friendly degreasing and defluxing agent, you should be able to get it from one of the large electronics component distributors.
    This is probably suitable

  4. #14
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    This tile trick is old as the hills, but be aware that the tile mirror corrodes/turns grey because it does not have a protective overcoat layer on the aluminum. You get a few months out of them. Then you have to make more. If your time is cheap, if you don't have to rent a lift to change your bounces, your Dollar to photon ratio is good, or your not using these mirrors with a high peak power laser like a Laserscope, then by all means use the old tile trick.
    ,
    If you really need bounce mirrors, buy 10 pieces of something over-coated from these guys.. The cost goes down if you buy 5-10 pieces.
    http://firstsurfacemirror.com/glass-...urface-mirror/
    ,
    Pure aluminum is 70-80% or so reflective, over-coated aluminum with a one layer coating approaches 95%.

    Steve
    Last edited by mixedgas; 11-03-2015 at 13:08.
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  5. #15
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    Aluminum forms a 4 nm protective coat in the form of aluminum oxide naturally instantly preventing further corrosion. I've only noticed dulling with silver.
    Last edited by ghosttrain; 11-03-2015 at 13:42.

  6. #16
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    4 nm is nothing with respect to corrosion resistance in a smokey show environment, nor does it significantly enhance reflectivity. Enhanced reflectiveity needs lambda over four which is, for red light, 632 nanometers/4 ~ 180 nm of thickness, with results starting at about 65 nm of Al2O3. . Not to mention that the process of removing the paint makes micro-scratches in many cases. Trust me, I've been at this for 20+ years.

    Steve
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  7. #17
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    Please don't get me wrong, but I usually don't take anyone's word for anything unless it's something overly scientific. This usually results in me not knowing the other half of the facts which could make me go with the opposite option. For example you just narrowed down the environment to smokey show areas.
    So I'm not saying I don't believe you, but I believe there's room for discussion.


    I didn't imply it enhances reflectivity, I just said that aluminum oxide layer prevents corrosion unless it is put in some extreme conditions. I don't think a foggy or hazy rooms constitutes as such, I think I'd notice.

    As for micro scratches, I agree, but again for what are people going to use such DIY first surface mirrors? I checked the site you linked, the pricing is very good, I'm sure a professional needing a first surface mirror for a commercial project would buy one from there or elsewhere just for the saved time. I'm a hobbyist, most of the time. Other times I buy from gkphotonics.
    Last edited by ghosttrain; 11-03-2015 at 15:31.

  8. #18
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    I think this is a great idea for a cheap and large "retro reflector" to bring the beam back to you for precise diode collimation over X distance. Especially since moving a collimator will move the beam all over and make it very difficult to target a small FSM while trying to adjust for the tightest divergence. Likewise for spatial filtering. Who cares if the coating only lasts a brief period of time? Excellent post for a cheap "around the shop" trick.
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  9. #19
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    If your in a city or even in a house, the small traces of sulfides, ammonia, and water in the air will initiate thin film aluminum corrosion too. fifty nanometers of silicon monoxide overcoat goes a long way in enhancing mirror life

    Steve
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  10. #20
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    Again I can't disagree with the theory, but I've never noticed any corrosion/greying with aluminum parts and pieces left in a room or even in my humid garage for months, so I'm not convinced it's bad enough until I test it out.

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