Paris

[colouredmirrorball]

At the risk of sounding chauvinistic, but what the hell, the problem is the men. Europe is not being threatened by hordes of hair dressers, actual children or old ladies. It is because the invasion is being driven by power hungry (male) Imams and fulfilled by young, aggressive men. Where are the European men! Seriously, aside from Merkel who is acting more and more like she is on drugs. WHERE ARE THE MEN!? I agree with the Muslim's disdain for Europe; it's disgusting. Sweden is the rape capital of Europe. One in four Swedish women will be raped. Where are the men? It is time to stop saying "yes dear" to a bunch of arrogant, PC, feminized socialists and say" get out of my way, I've got to fix this".

You hear this Europe? The sooner you come to the decision to DO SOMETHING the fewer that will die in the long run.

So what are you proposing? That we erect concentration camps and deport the jews muslims to them to eradicate them? If we betray our values then we have lost. The Daesh ideology is based on pure destruction and as such can not survive for long. They will self implode sooner or later, because the territory they govern is governed based on fear, which is not a sustainable way to keep your residents calm.

But just like Daesh came after Al Qaeda, another organisation will stand up when IS is crumbling. This is not a war you win with weapons but with ideology. It is a challenge unlike any other.

Europeans ceased to breed when it made more sense not to. Social safety nets and burdensome taxation made it less necessary and more difficult. Socialism is an unworkable and destructive system. It sounds nice from a naive or narrow prospective and its shortcomings are not obvious on a very short time horizon, but eventually the motivations it generates will cause exactly what is now occurring in Europe. The EU will certainly die as well, and for the same reasons, but not until Greece has had what, 4 or 10 bailouts?

Do you at least agree that capitalism is worse? It is more destructive than socialism will ever be, and this by design. None of which has anything to do with our "breeding". People stopped breeding because children are a lot of work and it's no longer necessary to have lots of hands helping you in the household/factories.

It is absolutely vital that we reach to the estranged muslim communities in Europe and educate them. They need to see the point in our western values and why trying to transfer extremistic islamic/sharian values into Europe would by any objective parameter be a bad thing. They need to learn about other world views and that the islamic view is not by any means superior but equal at most. They need to learn about science. And that is the problem. All of the terrorists are delinquents who dropped out of school at an early age and started to do drug trafficking, shoplifting etc. They do not feel welcome in our society. Those are the guys the IS recruiters target and because they never learned to think critically, make really easy targets too.

[planters]

So what are you proposing? That we erect concentration camps and deport the jews muslims to them to eradicate them? If we betray our values then we have lost. The Daesh ideology is based on pure destruction and as such can not survive for long. They will self implode sooner or later, because the territory they govern is governed based on fear, which is not a sustainable way to keep your residents calm.

But just like Daesh came after Al Qaeda, another organisation will stand up when IS is crumbling. This is not a war you win with weapons but with ideology. It is a challenge unlike any other.

You are serious? I suspect you are. The problem with current governance in the West is that the balance has been destroyed between self preservation in the form of national identity, the obligation for each community to protect its members and the freedom of association, and the moral obligation to support these ideals beyond national borders. If you look at the statistics, the amount of intervention in the form of foreign arms sales alone by the US, Britian, Germany, China and per capita, by the world leader in this horror, France, you see that "we" have been doing plenty to stir the pot. Over the last 100 years or so the hatred of third world people for Western intervention has been fueled by this imperialism. But don't get me wrong, the communist Chinese and the socialist Russians are right in the thick of it. Just ask the Ukrainians, the Chechens, the Chinese slave miners in Africa not to mention the dozen or so small eastern European nations that suffered under the USSR.

Islam is a political manifesto promoted as a religion. It has sought to dominate the world for 1400 years. If you read the Koran (I have) this manifest destiny really is in there. The bad policies of the developed nations have inflamed these people, but the Islamic system of conquest and subjugation/conversion was set much earlier then the rise of the nations that are now under attack.

However, the "solution" you suggest is likely to occur exactly because of the illegal actions of self promoting politicians like Merkel. The rise of the Nazi party had much less to do with the charisma of Hitler than with the consequences of the punitive settlement after WWI by Brittan France and the US. The Germans were looking for a scape goat and financially despite. Rather than slowly rising from this state, it was easier to lash out with incredible violence and cruelty at those they blamed for their suffering. You can already sense the mood of France is turning from 100% "what did we do wrong to make them so mad" to enough is enough. Keep it up. With the numbers of Islamists in Europe (and the US) numbering in the thousands (in my opinion many thousands). Those concentration camps are coming and the lucky will be deported.

Do you at least agree that capitalism is worse? It is more destructive than socialism will ever be, and this by design. None of which has anything to do with our "breeding". People stopped breeding because children are a lot of work and it's no longer necessary to have lots of hands helping you in the household/factories.

Absolutely, positively NO! And here is where I think you get it most wrong. Capitalism is not "designed" it is a natural result of human interaction. There were market places in Babylon and certainly long before that. Socialism is imposed. It failed for the Pilgrims. It failed the Soviets and if it wasn't for the in-roads of capitalism into China, they would still be suffering under the crushing poverty that Mao left them (the ones he didn't kill).

It is absolutely vital that we reach to the estranged muslim communities in Europe and educate them. They need to see the point in our western values and why trying to transfer extremistic islamic/sharian values into Europe would by any objective parameter be a bad thing.

No it isn't. They will not. They have seen as as I have complained about, it is not at all a bad idea. It's working. They are taking over the Western world, living off the welfare of the enemy/infidel while they intimidate the population, fail to move to appreciate our values and breed themselves into a majority of the population.

All of the terrorists are delinquents who dropped out of school at an early age and started to do drug trafficking, shoplifting etc.

I'm sorry, but how do you know this? This is often not the case. Bin Laden's story is complex, but he was a millionaire son of a very prominent Saudi family.

[colouredmirrorball]

You are serious? I suspect you are. The problem with current governance in the West is that the balance has been destroyed between self preservation in the form of national identity, the obligation for each community to protect its members and the freedom of association, and the moral obligation to support these ideals beyond national borders. If you look at the statistics, the amount of intervention in the form of foreign arms sales alone by the US, Britian, Germany, China and per capita, by the world leader in this horror, France, you see that "we" have been doing plenty to stir the pot. Over the last 100 years or so the hatred of third world people for Western intervention has been fueled by this imperialism. But don't get me wrong, the communist Chinese and the socialist Russians are right in the thick of it. Just ask the Ukrainians, the Chechens, the Chinese slave miners in Africa not to mention the dozen or so small eastern European nations that suffered under the USSR.

Islam is a political manifesto promoted as a religion. It has sought to dominate the world for 1400 years. If you read the Koran (I have) this manifest destiny really is in there. The bad policies of the developed nations have inflamed these people, but the Islamic system of conquest and subjugation/conversion was set much earlier then the rise of the nations that are now under attack.

However, the "solution" you suggest is likely to occur exactly because of the illegal actions of self promoting politicians like Merkel. The rise of the Nazi party had much less to do with the charisma of Hitler than with the consequences of the punitive settlement after WWI by Brittan France and the US. The Germans were looking for a scape goat and financially despite. Rather than slowly rising from this state, it was easier to lash out with incredible violence and cruelty at those they blamed for their suffering. You can already sense the mood of France is turning from 100% "what did we do wrong to make them so mad" to enough is enough. Keep it up. With the numbers of Islamists in Europe (and the US) numbering in the thousands (in my opinion many thousands). Those concentration camps are coming and the lucky will be deported.

Congratulations! You are Daesh' #1 ally. They *want* to create this sense of us vs them to rationalize their violence. Your comments are the prime example of the reactions they want to ellicit from westerners. They want us to hate them so they have an excuse to hate us back. Yes, let's deport the muslims! Then we will truly be the demons they have been telling we really are during their hate preaches. Only at the Caliphate the muslims will truly be able to peacefully live their lifes, without hate. And if the Caliphate grows strong, maybe one day it can rule the world...

Merkel did the single most damaging thing to Daesh just by saying "wir schaffen das". How can those heathen Europeans take care of muslims? Do they not hate us? How can that be!

Daesh desperately need doctors, engineers, scientists and smart people in general to rebuild their territory. Unfortunately for them, they value loyalty above all and kill anybody who dares raising their voice. This leaves them with a severe lack of smart persons. Everybody with a little bit of brain has fled the regio. They absolutely hate this and try to stop this brain drain. That's why some Paris terrorists had a Syrian passport: so Europeans would demand to close the borders. Then the brains can stay in the Caliphate and they can demonize the Europeans further because they let thousands die at their borders. It's all well thought out. They can only exist as long as they can hate westerners.

This is an interesting blog post and I agree with everything in it: https://plus.google.com/+YonatanZung...ts/RN2yx54bxPa


The other point you are making, that much of this is our own responsability, is unfortunately correct. But we cannot afford to dwell on the past and instead have to look into the future. It definately is possible to coexist peacefully! Look at Germany and France. 70 years ago it was unthinkable that those two countries would get along so well. Now they are virtually inseparable (mainly because of economic reasons).

Absolutely, positively NO! And here is where I think you get it most wrong. Capitalism is not "designed" it is a natural result of human interaction. There were market places in Babylon and certainly long before that. Socialism is imposed. It failed for the Pilgrims. It failed the Soviets and if it wasn't for the in-roads of capitalism into China, they would still be suffering under the crushing poverty that Mao left them (the ones he didn't kill).

So, because it grew "naturally", it must mean it is the best possible way? Really? So if you have a cancer you just let it grow because it came there naturally? Well then.
Well, here are some flaws of capitalism and you are not allowed to deny them because they're objectively true (capitalism was maybe not "designed" to have these but they are inherent to the system nonetheless!):

- Capitalism only works for the relentless and the lucky. Who are the most successful people? (a) The ones who are lucky enough to have a rich dad and (b) the ones who are able to modify the rules or abuse the rules or just break the rules according to their own needs. Why is a blithering idiot like Donald Trump allowed to be such a successful person? Simply because he had a rich dad. If he had to build his empire from the ground up he would be in the gutter. He had just the luck to be born in the right family. Then on the other hand you have companies who just sue every competitor out of existence, who pay lobby groups to influence politics, spend huge amounts of money to get their favorite presidential candidate elected and get some legislature in return, plain old bribery, just as long as it generates profit and it doesn't affect them negatively. It's not just Volkswagen.

This is bad because it leaves a lot of potential unused (the ones who are not lucky) and because it favors destructive behaviour. In a rational society everybody would get the chance to contribute. In a pure capitalistic society, only the ones who are lucky enough to afford education will be able to make something useful of their life. If you want to get maximum potential out of your society you need to make sure everybody is able to start on equal footing.

- The invisible hand gently looks away when profit can be made at the cost of others, the system or the environment. A company's #1 priority is to make profit. If it can do that by allowing another company to make profit as well then good (this is the principle behind the invisible hand). But it will not hesitate to make more profit by damaging others. The examples are countless. Who are the most successful companies? The ones who manage to circumvent the system by having lots of semi-legal offshore structures so they can avoid paying taxes at all. If a company thinks it will make more profit by murder and knows it will get away with it, it will do so without hesitation. You think I'm exaggerating? Just look at what Shell did in Nigeria, or what deforestation companies are doing in the Amazon. Depending on your definition of murder, you could include factory workers in Bangladesh or mining workers in China. The point I'm trying to make here is, if it wasn't the clothing company's number one priority to make profit, the factories in Bangladesh could have been of much higher quality and then none of those people needed to die.
It doesn't need to be that extreme of course: the environment is everybody's favorite subject to make profit on. Sure, the environmental costs will accumulate but it will only be felt within 50 years and what does that matter if we can make more profit now? With capitalism in place, there will never ever be a way to stop the climate change. Companies are literally destroying the world we're living in for no other reason than profit. In any reasonable and logical society, companies should have stopped using fossile fuels as soon as became apparent greenhouse gasses were going to become a huge problem.

I am not saying socialism or communism is the only alternative. But think out of the box man! Just because communism didn't work doesn't mean capitalism is the only way! What a lack of imagination you have. There are so many things wrong and broken with capitalism I do not understand how a smart guy like you can defend it. I do not know the solution. But I do think about ways to improve society. It is clear we need to shift away from capitalism. It is not sustainable and has run its course. I do not know, nor does anyone, how such a post-capitalism society would look like. But now is the moment to get together and think of how we want to live in the future, especially with the huge challenges we're facing.

The downside would be, indeed, that such a society would be an imposed society like communism (NOT socialism as this was not imposed by force but by democratic processes). We would need to absolutely make sure the new society is liveable and foolproof. But since the alternative, capitalism, is a headlong rush to a brick wall, we don't have a lot of choice.

No it isn't. They will not. They have seen as as I have complained about, it is not at all a bad idea. It's working. They are taking over the Western world, living off the welfare of the enemy/infidel while they intimidate the population, fail to move to appreciate our values and breed themselves into a majority of the population.

Well most muslims I know do. But I don't know a lot of them and so I can't say much. But I do know that there are large muslim communities in for example Molenbeek and the Paris banlieues who are completely estranged. If we want to stop these kinds of attacks such regions should be our #1 priority.

As for your belief that all this is some kind of grand plan of muslims to breed over the world, I'd have to tell you that it is extremely difficult to get 1 billion people to follow your plan. There is no plan. I'm not a demograph, but I don't believe a muslim takeover is for the near future.

I'm sorry, but how do you know this? This is often not the case. Bin Laden's story is complex, but he was a millionaire son of a very prominent Saudi family.

I should say that "all of the terrorists" is indeed wrong, it should be "most of the terrorists". Bin Laden is one example and he is not the typical terrorist of these days. Did he ever blow himself up? No, of course not, he thought himself far too important for that. The guys who blow themselves up are losers who are easily influenced by the Daesh recruiters. I know this because I read newspapers.

Ismael Omar Mostefai: small time criminal, arrested several times in 2008-2010 for petty crimes, went to Syria in 2013, blew himself up at the Bataclan
Ibrahim Abdeslam: ran a pub in Molenbeek known for drug traffic, was so stupid to blow himself up without extra casualties
Salah Abdeslam: helped his brother in the pub, still on the run because he was too scared to blow himself up in Paris, likely to cause problems in the near future (just hope I'm not around when he blows himself up)
Bilal Hadfi: grew up in a social housing complex, did not manage to get into the Stade de France and blew himself up without other casualties
Samy Amimour: grew up in a Paris suburb, went to Syria, blew himself up in the Bataclan
Mehdi Nemmouche: was a small crime criminal, thief, all-round gangster from north of France and shot three people in a Jewish museum in Brussels
Redouane Hagaoui: waiter at restaurant, was killed at an anti-terrorism police act in Verviers, alleged to plan to kill the surviving Charlie Hebdo targets
Amedy Coulibaly: shoplifter, armed robber, bank robber, killed by police as he held people hostage in a Jewish supermarket in Paris
Chérif and Saïd Kouachi: orphans, radicalised in Paris banlieues, slaughtered Charlie Hebdo cartoonists because they have on sense of humor at all

Can you see a pattern?

These are all insignificant people who feel out of place in our society. They are very susceptible for Daesh recruiters who can give them a sense of self worth in the islam and convince them the Caliphate is the only way to be a good muslim, the only way to do something useful with their life. They fail to see that they are as valuable to Daesh as rats and are sacrificed as cannon fodder. I don't know if the Daesh leaders truly believe in Allah but if they do, they even lie to them and tell them they will go to paradise, while they know full well that suiciders and homiciders go to hell (is that in the Koran? You can tell me).

Excuse the rambling. I did not sleep long this night.

[mixedgas]

Daesh are thugs. Smart thugs, well funded, but purely thugs and bullies. They are succeding beyond their wildest expectations.
+
They do not do "Nation Building" in areas they conquer. In fact they tear down sound physical and human capital infrastructure. Daily executions of large portions of the local populace for "Apostacy" does not win hearts and minds. If those fleeing had no place to flee, you might see Daesh slowed to a standstill from backlash. They roll into town and start looking for resources to liquidate to fund their cause. The last major nation state to try that found itself fighting on too many fronts, while quickly burning thru strategic materials and human capital.
+
Military evaluations of their battle tactics show that purely Daesh forces fold and fall back often. Only the locals who are interested in holding their home ground or nation have the motivation to do well.
+
Our politicians are actually catering to them by doing the "centrist-moderate" politically correct things. This morning in the US, 24 State Governors said "Just Say No" to allowing Syrian refuges, as our President wishes to open our borders to them.
+
Smarter heads are starting to prevail, as the general populace world wide sees its leadership catering to special interests on this matter. The goal of many politicans is to cater to funding interests that love these "open boarders" concepts to change voting demographics. As well as to those who want low cost labor and new markets at any cost.
+
My bet is that the Schengen Agreement is dead after this. That might just be a good thing.
+
Worth a read, even though I totally don't agree with this particular publication:
+
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...-wants/384980/
+

Steve

[swamidog]

This morning in the US 24 State Governors said "Just Say No" to allowing Syrian refuges, as our President wishes to open our borders to them.

Steve

This morning, in the US, 24 State Governors said "Just Say No" in a embarrassing, pointless, and not unexpected bit of political posturing.

Excerpt from: http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...rian-refugees/


The problem for Jindal, Abbott and the other governors opposed to admitting refugees, however, is that there is no lawful means that permits a state government to dictate immigration policy to the president in this way. As the Supreme Court explained in Hines v. Davidowitz, “the supremacy of the national power in the general field of foreign affairs, including power over immigration, naturalization and deportation, is made clear by the Constitution.” States do not get to overrule the federal government on matters such as this one.

[mixedgas]

Swami, Of couse they have little say in the matter. Their action is symbolic. However, we as a nation need to think about how much more load our social welfare systems can take. I live in a town where we have beggers on every major street corner in the central business district and at every expressway exit. It might be time to take care of our existing social problems and economic woes.
+
It might be time to force the executive branch to follow rules and law, instead of making up policy on the fly. Rapid "Wag the Dog" changes in policy, constantly reacting to daily media events, are opening the door to national chaos. How many more new policies and laws do we need? How many more "executive orders" are enough?

Steve

[planters]

Congratulations! You are Daesh' #1 ally.

Thanks, but I don't think so.

Then we will truly be the demons they have been telling we really are during their hate preaches.

This is illogical. So, by that standard whatever THEY SAY about us can be held as a standard to measure us by.

The daesh ravage and destroy. They demonize their enemies (us). The path of their destruction causes their regions to lack any people that could contribute to their survival and we are supposed to open our communities to this threat to prove them wrong?

Merkel did the single most damaging thing to Daesh just by saying "wir schaffen das".

In a way your right. She has accelerated the onset of WWIII while there are still enough Europeans alive to win it. But it will be war.

I think it is fair to turn this around. You're thinking is the reason that this has gotten as bad as it has. This laissez-faire approach to immigration and border security has made the necessary response to this Muslim aggression much more drastic. Both Bush and Obamma have pursued this and it is the single reason that despite his goofy persona that D. Trump is blowing away his opponents.

- Capitalism only works for the relentless and the lucky. Who are the most successful people? (a) The ones who are lucky enough to have a rich dad and (b) the ones who are able to modify the rules or abuse the rules or just break the rules according to their own needs. Why is a blithering idiot like Donald Trump allowed to be such a successful person? Simply because he had a rich dad. If he had to build his empire from the ground up he would be in the gutter. He had just the luck to be born in the right family. Then on the other hand you have companies who just sue every competitor out of existence, who pay lobby groups to influence politics, spend huge amounts of money to get their favorite presidential candidate elected and get some legislature in return, plain old bribery, just as long as it generates profit and it doesn't affect them negatively. It's not just Volkswagen.

This is bad because it leaves a lot of potential unused (the ones who are not lucky) and because it favors destructive behaviour. In a rational society everybody would get the chance to contribute. In a pure capitalistic society, only the ones who are lucky enough to afford education will be able to make something useful of their life. If you want to get maximum potential out of your society you need to make sure everybody is able to start on equal footing.

- The invisible hand gently looks away when profit can be made at the cost of others, the system or the environment. A company's #1 priority is to make profit. If it can do that by allowing another company to make profit as well then good (this is the principle behind the invisible hand). But it will not hesitate to make more profit by damaging others. The examples are countless. Who are the most successful companies? The ones who manage to circumvent the system by having lots of semi-legal offshore structures so they can avoid paying taxes at all. If a company thinks it will make more profit by murder and knows it will get away with it, it will do so without hesitation. You think I'm exaggerating? Just look at what Shell did in Nigeria, or what deforestation companies are doing in the Amazon. Depending on your definition of murder, you could include factory workers in Bangladesh or mining workers in China. The point I'm trying to make here is, if it wasn't the clothing company's number one priority to make profit, the factories in Bangladesh could have been of much higher quality and then none of those people needed to die.
It doesn't need to be that extreme of course: the environment is everybody's favorite subject to make profit on. Sure, the environmental costs will accumulate but it will only be felt within 50 years and what does that matter if we can make more profit now? With capitalism in place, there will never ever be a way to stop the climate change. Companies are literally destroying the world we're living in for no other reason than profit. In any reasonable and logical society, companies should have stopped using fossile fuels as soon as became apparent greenhouse gasses were going to become a huge problem.

Wow! Feeling a little "unlucky" are we

But think out of the box man! Just because communism didn't work doesn't mean capitalism is the only way! What a lack of imagination you have.

This is an important observation. Does anyone here not believe that I think outside of the box? Man, I live outside of the box.

I do not understand how a smart guy like you can defend it.

This is also a good observation. You acknowledge that I may be smart. Think very carefully when you assume that I have it wrong.

. I do not know the solution. But I do think about ways to improve society. It is clear we need to shift away from capitalism. It is not sustainable and has run its course.

You are not alone. but some self appointed tinkerer is not the solution. The assumption that social behavior can or should be designed or imposed is immoral and IT has never worked.

As for your belief that all this is some kind of grand plan of muslims to breed over the world, I'd have to tell you that it is extremely difficult to get 1 billion people to follow your plan. There is no plan. I'm not a demograph, but I don't believe a muslim takeover is for the near future.

This is not my belief. As if it is a private conclusion. It is in the manual. You should read the Koran. I really mean it. It's a heavy read, but I guarantee that at some point you will look up and say "oh my God, he's right" I hope that, that moment does not come when you are alone or your loved ones are far away. It is a significant revelation.

[planters]

Swami,
You are right, but as Steve states this does not make it right. One of the strengths of the US had been the diversity of the states (real diversity, not PC speak for anti-American). This power grab by the federal government based on celebrity, is destructive. This is a republic, ruled by laws and this serves to protect the minority (any minority) from the whims of the majority. But, the willful disregard for the law regarding our borders by Bush as well as Obama, against clear majority opposition is wrong no matter how you look at it. However, who hasn't heard "if you disagree with Obama it's because he's black".

[logsquared]

The assumption that social behavior can or should be designed or imposed is immoral and IT has never worked.

Are you suggesting anarchy?

[colouredmirrorball]

Thanks, but I don't think so.

Then why are you saying exactly what they want you to say?

This is illogical. So, by that standard whatever THEY SAY about us can be held as a standard to measure us by.

You missed the most important part. If we deport muslims en masse, muslims will flee right into the arms of the Caliphate because, as they advertise their shithole, it is the only "safe place where muslims can go and live free". Can you see why that is a bad thing? Can you see why displaying our moral values through compassion and providing support for refugees goes directly against their hopes?

The daesh ravage and destroy. They demonize their enemies (us). The path of their destruction causes their regions to lack any people that could contribute to their survival and we are supposed to open our communities to this threat to prove them wrong?

You are making an error in equalizing islam and Daesh. Daesh is abusing the islam religion for their own selfish needs. I even doubt al-Baghdadi believes in Allah since everything he does goes against everything I know about islam. I have not read the koran but have the word of several imams to back it up.

In a way your right. She has accelerated the onset of WWIII while there are still enough Europeans alive to win it. But it will be war.

I think it is fair to turn this around. You're thinking is the reason that this has gotten as bad as it has. This laissez-faire approach to immigration and border security has made the necessary response to this Muslim aggression much more drastic. Both Bush and Obamma have pursued this and it is the single reason that despite his goofy persona that D. Trump is blowing away his opponents.

I will not comment on your own country's internal affairs. But I must say it is worrying.

Again it's not muslim aggression. It's aggression by dangerous individuals who abuse the religion. You should really make that distinction. It appears you are confusing current events with a speculative future event where immigrant muslim population would be equal to original population. That is not the threat we're facing now.

I think most refugees accept that things are different in Europe. After all that's why they came here. The danger is not in the refugees who come here. The danger is in their offspring who have never known the perils their parents escaped from and take individual rights for granted. It is exactly what is happening now. If you look again at that list of terrorists you'll notice very little of them came from abroad. They grew up in our own countries as second or third generation immigrants! But we as a society failed to transfer our values into them and make them see the worth of it. All fueled by a latent racism and exclusion from the community, not in the least caused by the fact most of them live in de facto ghettos.

Wow! Feeling a little "unlucky" are we

Really that's all you got?
This is not a rational argument. I must say I'm disappointed.

This is an important observation. Does anyone here not believe that I think outside of the box? Man, I live outside of the box.

You think much of yourself, but if you truly believe capitalism is the only way forward then I've got news for you...

This is also a good observation. You acknowledge that I may be smart. Think very carefully when you assume that I have it wrong.

At least you're able to have this argument.
Well so far you haven't given me any rational argument. I will consider myself to be right until proven otherwise.

You are not alone. but some self appointed tinkerer is not the solution. The assumption that social behavior can or should be designed or imposed is immoral and IT has never worked.

And this coming from a man who thinks plain old genocide is an acceptable solution. You do have a point about self imposing systems, but there is no reason a post-capitalistic society should be imposed. It can happen through the people without totalitarian state.

This is not my belief. As if it is a private conclusion. It is in the manual. You should read the Koran. I really mean it. It's a heavy read, but I guarantee that at some point you will look up and say "oh my God, he's right" I hope that, that moment does not come when you are alone or your loved ones are far away. It is a significant revelation.

Maybe I will once univ cuts me some slack.

But I believe it's like the Bible: not to be taken literally. Christianity managed to move on from this. We no longer lynch homosexuals or adulterers. There are muslims who drink, smoke and listen to music. There are muslim scientists. It's not all hopeless.