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Thread: Buying new laser, Goldenstar or Laserworld???

  1. #1
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    Laser Warning Buying new laser, Goldenstar or Laserworld???

    Hi all!


    So I have a little bit of experience with small dmx dj lasers and would like to get a proper ILDA RGB laser initially as a hobby, design some shows to dance music tracks for my own entertainment and maybe sometime in the future go into doing small club shows. Will be keeping beams well above my own/others height and have no intention of doing any kind of audience scanning.


    Picked up a mint condition Pangolin Quickshow/FB3 recently for an insanely low price so I have that out of the way!


    After doing a little creeping on the forums here it would appear that Laserworld is a big no go? I’ll be honest I was originally looking at a laserworld DS900 RGB for about €800… it attracted me because it is small and compact and has ‘sealed housing technology’ which appears to be a good thing for people who don’t know much about cleaning/opening the projector themselves? Now I suppose Laserworld do a lot of marketing on the DJ supply websites and I was looking at buying from Thomann so that’s really the main brand that jumps out at you. There is also Cameo and Volkslaser (by Medialas) is anybody knows anything about them? The 3 year warranty is also attractive from Thomann. However it would appear that Laserworld products do indeed give hassle and I have seen a few of them in the B-Stock section of Thomann (where products that have been returned are sold slightly cheaper). One more thing-the DS900 in all the video I’ve watched some videos of it seems to have a very weak green diode..constantly being outshone by the red/blue. Which annoys me a bit as I want a decent strong green colour in the laser I buy.


    Now in saying that there’s no point me paying extra for analogue modulation because I’m more than happy with 7 colours and I want to use it to do beam shows for electronic music so say for example smooth slow waves and tunnels and then fast beam scanning effects, hot beams, strobe type stuff etc and maybe some simple graphics. Now one of my questions is I’ve only used little dj lasers with stepper motors before so I don’t know what speed of scanner I’ll need to perform the aforementioned effects. Is a basic 20K or 30K enough (and reliable) or is DT30 needed for good beam effects?
    In an ideal world I would fork out 2000 quid and buy a Kvant. However I have a budget of around €500-€800 and have had my curiosity aroused by Goldenstar Laser-Who certainly seem to offer higher spec projectors for the same price as a far lower spec Laserworld. Have seen some very positive feedback here about their build quality and customer service and the general consensus seems to be that you’re not buying on the blind side like you would with Chinese lasers on Ebay or AliExpress etc? The nice flight case is a plus as well. I am looking at the slightly higher end of their disco series:
    The D-RGB1500-B http://goldenstarlaser.com/index.php...rice&order=ASC
    and the D-RGB1800-A http://goldenstarlaser.com/index.php...rice&order=ASC
    Both of these units have 30K Scanners… Now I’m assuming they are not DT scanners as other Projectors on their website specify DT. So I’m wondering are these scanners just ‘regular 30K’ or PT scanners as I’ve seen someone on here mention? Now I suppose this relates back to my lack of understanding of what quality of scanners I’ll actually need for what I want to do so I’m not really sure I know what I’m talking about here lol.


    Aside from that has anybody else here used the GS Disco series? Are the laser modules durable, will they last a good while? And in the event the scanner or a module died would it be a very hard task to replace it myself? I have seen people mention that GS use good quality Laserwave modules so maybe I should contact Mimi and see what type of modules are in these projectors I am looking at. Also I’m wondering can GS label the product as costing less than it does to avoid large custom duty.


    In terms of accessories I have a fogger and plug converters, light stands etc here. And think I will buy one really big ILDA cable maybe 50m so I won’t be stuck for length. Does a long cable like this cause a delay in sending signals from the FB3 actually?
    In terms of safety I have seen a lot of talk about ‘variance’ and GS lasers not having this. I live in Ireland and have yet to investigate regulations here. The projector specs say it has ‘’overload protection on X and Y galvo’’ to protect against failure. However if I was operating the laser and had an E-Stop connected to it, and if the scanner failed and started emitting an unsafe beam for example, hitting the E-Stop will instantly power off the projector is that right? Or does it stop the emission? So in theory is having an E-Stop considered an acceptable safety measure?

    Would be great if some of the gurus on here could lend a little advice before I purchase my projector, Cheers!
    Last edited by Colin290; 01-26-2016 at 11:41.

  2. #2
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    And apologies if this is the wrong place to begin this thread I'm not fully sure how to work the forum folks.

  3. #3
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    Hi Colin
    You are in the right place. :-)

    This is also the place where you don`t get a stright answer to your headline question.

    I can share from my personal experience, and I`m pretty sure others will chime in.

    Brand vs brand:
    I have a couple of GS lasers, and the build quality is high compaired to other brands made in china. I don`t own any of the disco series, and i would probably stay clear. The reason is the big difference in divergence from the different modules. Red will be more or less a big red touch. The blue will be much smaller dot or beam, and the green (532nm DPPS) will make a very narrow small beam compaired to the red and blue. It might not be to obvious when doing beams, but for graphics it`s a nogo.

    Look at the full doide series. In the lower power-range the modules are not corrected meaning the divergence will be quite high here also.

    As for the galvos, the standard "cheap" galvos Goldenstar uses, is quite nice, but they dont scan very wide. The DT ant PT scanners are all good, but stay at 30K or better if you want to do any kind of graphics.

    There are also other china made lasers, who have earned a good rep here at PL. Eightonlight also have good products, and good service.

    Remember fright are cheap from china, but not free.

    Most of them are willing to sell one pcs at a time. Just send them a PM and ask for a pricelist. Dealing about the paperwork will be a personal matter for you. Probably solved just fine.

    As for Laserworld, i have no personal experience, but have registered that used and parts for repair are frequently out on sale. The rep here at PL are questionable as they often overspec the lasers in adds.

    A 50 meter ILDA cable will not case any delay in signal. I don`t own such a long cable, but have thoughts about the resistance and think there might be issues there. I really high quality cable will be needed for sure.

    It seems that you have been reading up on lasersafety. Essential for this hobby. Good. A killswitch will not solve any situation, and a simple grounding issue might case a module to still produce a 100% beam even if the interlock loop is closed. That is why a mechanical shutter aslo shoud be in place. Masking the projector for physical stopping the beam reaching audience is also reccomended.

    I Can`t stop this post without a suggestion. Why not try to build your own box. If your time is money, then it`s a bac idea. But what a hobby. Quite easy getting started, and learning new stuff almost every time you start fiddeling around. It require some basic knowlage about electronics, but most is common sens, trial and (expensive) error.

    Best of luck in getting into the bottomless moneypit - the laserhobby.

    Espen
    __________________________________________________ __________

    More projects than time available.
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    Just got to love lasers!

  4. #4
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    You've hit on a large number of questions so I'll try to address them as well.
    .
    Laserworld vs. Goldenstar. First, Laserworld used to have a poor reputation but, I can tell you they have been working hard to correct that. We had the good fortune of having the US based vice president attend SELEM this past summer and he brought a lot of stock for us to look through and put through it's paces. On the lower end that you are looking at, they are still made in China and on par with some Chinese manufactured brands. No great but not bad either. Their mid range and high end projectors have really stepped it up in terms of quality. You would do ok with Laserworld as a starter. By the same token, yes, Goldenstar has a very good reputation here on the forum. They've steadily improved their quality as well but, on the low end, you still have the issues Espen described above with the beam quality not being that great. Lightspace also makes some very nice affordable projectors but, they start somewhat above your budget. The quality is also probably a bit better than the low end of either of the two.
    Either one is going to be equally ok but yet, slightly less than what many of us would deem as satisfactory. I would prefer to see you keep saving a little while longer and go with something slightly better. You'll be happier in the long run.
    .
    Go analog over TTL. You may "think" you're going to be happy with just 7 colors but, the price difference is negligible (maybe 10-20 euro?) between them and, your overall satisfaction with be MUCH... repeat, MUCH, greater with analog. I wouldn't even give TTL a thought. As a matter of fact, I would insist on analog.
    .
    20k vs 30k vs 40k. For strictly beams, 20k is probably adequate although again, for the small difference in price, I would suggest at a minimum going with 30k. You never know what your future use of the laser may be and you might as well get 30k now rather than wish you'd spent the extra 20 euro or whatever six months from now. Excuse the expression but, why fuck around when you're already spending 800 euro? Do it right the first time. Retrofitting is going to cost a hell of a lot more if you start thinking upgrade.
    .
    I would say that the biggest difference between the unspecified brand of scanners versus DT's or PT's is going to be long term reliability. That's not to say DT's or PT's can't fail but, the unspecified scanners have a lot more likely chance of failure and worse quality output. Once again it's down to that little bit of extra money when you're already going to invest 800 euro in this thing. I'm also going to say that just like analog modulation, in the long run, you'll never regret spending just a touch more to get the DT's or PT's. N-o-b-o-d-y has EVER said, "Damnit... why did I ever spend more for these scanners when the cheap ones would have been fine."
    .
    50' ILDA cable is fine. No signal loss. Buy whatever. You don't need some uber high end cable. (Oh wait... you said "meter".) Ok, 50 meters is like 160 feet. I don't know anyone that's ever had an ILDA cable that long so I can't tell you about a performance hit. Actually, that long seems almost silly for the type of small projector you're considering. 100' or about 30 meters is the longest I ever need to use and they're fine.
    .
    The variance talk is for people in the United States. We have some fairly restrictive regulations regarding lasers and no, Goldenstar does not meet those restrictions. Check your regulations first before you buy anything just to be safe. Would you try and buy a gun without knowing your country's gun laws?
    .
    An e-stop should be regarded as standard equipment and yes, it shuts off the emission. It doesn't totally power down the projector but, it's basically there for you to slam in an emergency situation if you to have a failure or the projector gets bumped and is sending beams in an unsafe area.
    .
    So.... basically what I am saying is.... lasers are not an inexpensive endeavor. Some things on the low end can be an unsatisfactory waste of money that you will never recoup once you realize the mistake that you made by buying cheap. And you will realize it relatively early on. Save up and spend a little bit extra in some specific areas. Analog modulation and good scanners. It's actually often easier and cheaper to replace a diode or do some beam correcting should you want to do that in the future.
    PM Sent...

  5. #5
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    Would like to recommend our Club2000:
    638nmRed 500mW + 520nm Green 500mW + 445nm Blue 1W, With TEC-Cool laser module, PT-30K with big mirror.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1.JPG 
Views:	8 
Size:	2.42 MB 
ID:	49165
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	3.JPG 
Views:	6 
Size:	2.20 MB 
ID:	49166

    Feel free to contact me for questions.

    Thank you!
    Song
    L.A.S.E.R.
    Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation

    Laser system: Pure Diode 3W & 6W RGB Laser.



    www.facebook.com/saifer.sy
    www.laser-viva.com

  6. #6
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    Espen,

    Thanks for taking the time to give such an informative reply to my post!

    That's good to hear about GS, which models do you own? I see in your signature you have a D-RGB 2000?

    As for scanners Looks like I will certainly go for minumum of DT30 as wide scanning would be something I really want for my beam shows.

    Regarding the divergence are you basically saying that the green 532 beam will be alot tighter than the red and blue so when they mix you will get a mixed result in terms of sharpness?
    So do you think the GS P RGB 3000 would have poor divergence for graphics also?

    It appears goldenstar also offer mechanical shutter so I will look into this, is the shutter controlled via quickshow or does it close whenever one presses the E-Stop?

    To be honest I would like to try a build sometime in the future but at present time and equipment is really a limiting factor for me so I will be buying a laser this time. But hopefully will have a look inside the projector and understand how all the parts work for future. I will also look into the Lightspace projectors they appear to be a good product too!

    Cheers again!

  7. #7
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    Bradfo69 cheers for your reply and for your advice!

    That is interesting about laserworld, I will also look into lightspace and see what they have to offer, would the poorer beam specs on the goldenstar still be good for beam shows or is pure diode the only way to go?

    Certainly I think I will go for analog now that you make that point! I'm also going to definitly get DT30 scanners or equivalent.

    In terms of the ILDA cable I suppose my reasoning was that if I was ever going to use the laser for shows in a venue that I would be quite a distance away from the laser if I had my FB3 set up in an LJ booth maybe and so a 50m would alleviate any problems like that, I thought if I was going to have to pay delivery anyway I might aswell get a big one from one of the dj supply websites, but I suppose 25m to 30m would still be quite substantial, can ILDA cables be linked together to increase overall length?

    I will indeed do some digging now into local regulations here. I hope to get a projector with a mechanical shutter too as suggested by Espen above. Just in terms of the Estop cable, can it be extended too if you are quite a distance away from projector? most seem to be about 20m standard in length.

    That is a great point you make about the analog mod and scanners, so it wouldnt be too big a task for someone like myself to take out a module and replace it with a more powerful one or maybe a module with better beam divergence?

    Thanks!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Song View Post
    Would like to recommend our Club2000:
    638nmRed 500mW + 520nm Green 500mW + 445nm Blue 1W, With TEC-Cool laser module, PT-30K with big mirror.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1.JPG 
Views:	8 
Size:	2.42 MB 
ID:	49165
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	3.JPG 
Views:	6 
Size:	2.20 MB 
ID:	49166

    Feel free to contact me for questions.

    Thank you!
    Song
    Hi there Song will PM you now!!

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    Hi Colin,

    In general the best way to go, especially starting out with lasers, is to pick something that fit's the area you use it for.
    So if the area you are servicing is about say 20 x 20 mtr = 400 sq.mtr = 400 mW green or 1200 mW RGB.
    This is just a generic rule of thumb though.

    As for laser sources. You will want to have the sources as close to each other as possible. Systems with variable beam-sizes like the GS mentioned above are fun to fiddle with, they are cheap, but due to the various sources you do not get the wanted effects and clear beams that you'd like. When the beam sizes vary you will end up with for example a yellow beam with a red edge. Not good.

    I can safely advise the 520laser systems, we sell them here in The Netherlands too via 520laser.nl .
    Next to those we offer various systems in our FD Series, ranging from 800 mW up to 28 Watt. All full diode with matching beamsizes and balanced from the start, so white will be white at full power.

    To control lasers with DMX is an option with many of the models we offer, yet we feel that the QS you've got is probably a better option and offers more options and far better color .

    One tip I will offer you: If you decide to use a Full Diode system, regardless of the brand, and you find the colors you get from QS are not what you want or expect, then set your RGB settings in QS to LOG system. Many diode drivers respond better to LOGarithmic setting.

    If you need any info or have questions about our systems, just send me a message or find us on FB.

  10. #10
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    Hi Colin,
    .
    Keep asking questions! That's the best way to learn. Yes, you can hook ILDA cables together to extend their length. What I guess I meant to say was I've never seen a vendor sell a 50 meter ILDA cable. The longest you commonly see is (in the US) 100 feet which is somewhere close to 30 meters. But yes, there have been times where we've hooked a couple of 50's together when we didn't have 100 or, added a 25 to the end of a 100 if you needed just a little more reach. There is a maximum length that you can reach with an ILDA cable before you start losing signal but, I don't recall exactly what that length is. I know there are plenty of smart people on here that can just spout that off without even thinking about it. Regardless, I will stand by what I said that I doubt... with that power of laser... that you'd do a show that needed a cable 50 meters long. You'd end up so far away you'd be staring off in the distance and saying, "Is that little glow way over there my laser??" (Not that bad but, you get my point.)
    .
    Just to clarify your "beamspecs on the Goldenstar versus pure diode" comment. Just because something is "diode" doesn't mean it has better beam spec's. Think of it this way.... in many cheaper projectors, the colors tend to be different diameters. Take a static white beam and shine it on a wall 100 feet away. Walk over to where it lands on the wall and look at it. The red may be the size around of a tennis ball. The blue might be the diameter of a golf ball and the green might be the diameter of a marble. The only "white" you're really going to have is the size of the marble since it contains all three colors. The objective is for all three of those colors to be as close to the same size as possible. Some of that is done through beam correction, meaning that some lenses are used with each color to try and get them all the same size. Optics are expensive so, cheaper projectors aren't going to always have great beam specs. Some diodes simply produce larger spots. 635nm red for example is generally really big and hard to use optics to tighten it down. The seller can still lure you into thinking you're getting a lot of red by saying "It has 3 watts of red!" That's all fine and dandy but, if it's the size of a tennis ball, who cares? That's 3 watts spread out over a large area so it's not going to be that bright even though it's three watts. And if you're doing any kind of graphics, it's like drawing with a big fat kludgy marker rather than a fine tipped pen. And it's hard to take those diodes and optically correct them to make a tighter beam.
    .
    638nm is better but still can be tough. 637nm can give you a nice tight beam without a huge amount of correction but, it's also expensive.
    .
    Your blues which are commonly 445nm or 462nm tend to be a certain diameter and your 520nm greens are another. 532nm green is actually a different technology called DPSS and gives you a might tighter beam but, the trade off is it being affected by temperature, coming out of alignment and other problems. All of these wavelength colors tend to also play into what combined colors and, the quality of white that can be produced. 445 plus 520 plus 638 while still red geen and blue are going to look very different than say 462, 532 and 637. Or.... whatever combination a manufacturer has come up with.
    .
    With TTL you've got 100% power on each of those three colors all the time so, you're stuck with red, green blue, cyan, magenta, yellow and white. And whatever color magenta is made by the blue source and red source or, whatever color yellow you get from the red and the green and whatever color cyan you get from the green and the blue. With analog, you now have control over the percentage of each color so, maybe 45% red and 81% blue and 14% green for example, is going to give you a lot more interesting color and.... will look more like what your preview window in Quickshow actually looks like. Glad it sounds like you've come around to the idea of analog vs. TTL. TTL is also a method of making cheap lasers look brighter.
    .
    Yes, I would also say that it will be easier for you to swap out a module than it would be to swap out scanners. It may still require modification to make sure it fits but in the long run, I think changing a module down the road is going to be much more simple.
    PM Sent...

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