Another newbie hath arriveth

[Melgarh]

Hello everybody! (TL&DR at the bottom)

I find myself in a year of 2016 and with quite a bit of time available to learn a new hobby as well as to spend my time at work to improve myself on something than just IT! As I'm from a country, that is still waking up from its post-communist lethargy, it is close to impossible to find any guidance, information or hardware around these part (Central/Eastern Europe - Czech/Slovakia) and I've to rely on eBay, AliExpress and what not. Also thanks to MasterPJ for bringing me here and answering my initial questions on FB

After doing various research, I've found out that there are quite a few options if I want to start with RGB lasers to display logo's and ornaments for my myself or couple of friends when we throw a more elaborate house/LAN/cooking party

• iShow 2.3 - super cheap but x86 limitation and low signal pass through via its DAC, only 8bit (also does not support analog laser???)
• Spaghetti - cheap-ish alternative, seems pretty good, wide support of DAC's, export to ILDA (not sure if it supports analog output?)
• LSX - costs a bit, has PRO features and looks quite packing, however as initial investment I would rather upgrade to it then start off, export to ILDA (not sure if it supports analog output?)
• SOS ILD - interesting tool, Inkscape SVG import support to ILDA export, so this may be a "Must buy" thing for me then! (analog output, do you has it?)
• Pangolin QS - tried the Demo, looks great, supports direct image import, quite usable GUI, ~500 $ + 19% tax + 5% import tax + shipping = ~700 USD, le Nope!
• Beyond - "We are taking your chair, bed and shaving you bald."
• SVG to ILD converter - http://198.167.138.126/svg2ild/ free and usable, need to learn how to preserve colours as it ate my RGB purple and gave a red instead
• LaserBoy - seems more of an analysis, optimization tool as well as CMD for transformation operations
• LaserShowGen - super cheap, does have interesting feature but I'm rather confused about this one
• ILDAViewer - didn't find the DL link?
• Illustrate & 3D max by MasterPJ - seems rather complex and expensive, as I want to start with 2D first, to spark more interest in my brain ;-)

Why i've mentioned ILDA export? Cause the cheap China-lasers have SD card inputs and If I want to skip on DAC to be more cost-effective, then the export feature saves the day ;-) (plus getting a DAC in Europe seems pretty hardcore)

As I've been forced to do graphics for a convention for 2 years, I've had to learn using Photoshop and Inkscape from scratch and I've very much enjoyed it - especially Inkscape still seems to have rather cumbersome GUI so I can live with cheap options as long as there is some output at least and if the output looks in the lines of what i intend, then I can justify spending more $$$ to get some better tools! (yes, that means that I'm able to suffer through the curse-word "iShow" if necessary!)

Laser i'm looking at:
500mw SD+Analog RGB Animation Laser Light(LH-RGB222), RGB 150mW,100mW,250mW, Scanner 30k (although i know that about half will be more real..)
Capability: Auto,Sound-Active,DMX512,Master/Slave,SD Card,Key Switch, ILDA



Thus there are two questions (TL&DR):
1) What SW supports Analog laser (as to have future-proof device or should I just go with TTL)?
2) Cheapest way to get the laser up and running and be able to simple 2D graphic (logos) with basic animation (move XYZ axis) and change colour? (with reasonable learning curve but I can take some stress-hits)

[frostypaw]

Hey welcome to the money pit

I can't answer all your questions but the impression you've got that getting a DAC/software from Europe is hard is very wrong, and will give you more options.

The market, and this forum, is to some extent dominated by America. It's a shame we don't see more of the European packages here, they seem perfectly capable.

Just off my head there's Showtacle with moncha and fiesta who are virtually your neighbours, there's JMLaser with the easylase and Dynamics, then Medialas with Mamba and their Quickport - you can be up and displaying stuff for less than 250euro. The bonus could be native language support too, can make a big difference.

IDLA export just isn't an option for writing shows. The amount of tweaking and adjusting and switching back and forth would drive you insane, besides with a DAC you can control so much more about how the show is displayed you really would be missing out

Looking up that laser it's using a DPSS green so the beams will certainly not match at a distance, but that might not fuss you.

Good luck

[james]

...

LaserBoy - seems more of an analysis, optimization tool as well as CMD for transformation operations

Why i've mentioned ILDA export? Cause the cheap China-lasers have SD card inputs and If I want to skip on DAC to be more cost-effective, then the export feature saves the day ;-) (plus getting a DAC in Europe seems pretty hardcore)

1) What SW supports Analog laser (as to have future-proof device or should I just go with TTL)?
2) Cheapest way to get the laser up and running and be able to simple 2D graphic (logos) with basic animation (move XYZ axis) and change colour? (with reasonable learning curve but I can take some stress-hits)

...

LaserBoy does a lot of stuff, including converting folders full of DXF exports to ILDA frame sets; making it possible to use 3D CAD animations. It reads and writes all formats of ILDA. It also creates optimized wave files that, when played through a generic multi-channel sound device, create the analog signals needed to control that ILDA port.

To make a sound card work as a laser DAC, you need to tack some wires onto the back of the sound device board and build or buy a kit called a LaserBoy Correction Amp. (I sell the kit).

With that you get a LaserBoy DAC that costs as little as possible and is fully 16 bits at 48KHz on 8 channels!

You can make single waves files with 8 channels,

X,
Y,
(8 bit) analog red,
(8 bit) analog green,
(8 bit) analog blue,
(other),
Left Audio,
Right Audio;

where (other) might be time code for external events or a monochrome signal for a single color laser, etc...

With this DAC you can play ADAT laser show transcriptions. Some of the other laser applications out there support a modified sound device; even as a live DAC.

The LaserBoy app allows you to create full (24 bit; RGB) color laser art in 3D with a full set of frame and frame set animation effects, drawing tools, math figure rendering, text rendering in several different fonts, etc...

BTW There are a lot of people on your side of the world who already use LaserBoy!

James.

[colouredmirrorball]

• Spaghetti - cheap-ish alternative, seems pretty good, wide support of DAC's, export to ILDA (not sure if it supports analog output?) Yes, it has analog output
• LSX - costs a bit, has PRO features and looks quite packing, however as initial investment I would rather upgrade to it then start off, export to ILDA (not sure if it supports analog output?) Yup analog output again. Personally I would recommend the Basic version as it's about $200 which is really good for its abilities and this version has MIDI an OSC support, which is in my opinion unmissable to extend the possibilities even further. (It also ships with Ild Sos so you save there too)
• SOS ILD - interesting tool, Inkscape SVG import support to ILDA export, so this may be a "Must buy" thing for me then! (analog output, do you has it?) Uh-uh, it can output to a DAC but this is not the program you would want to use on a live show...
• LaserBoy - seems more of an analysis, optimization tool as well as CMD for transformation operations It can also convert to DXF (and Inkscape can convert SVG to DXF) in case you're too cheap for Ild Sos
• ILDAViewer - didn't find the DL link? Really? I must fix that then... I'll send you a PM with a test version. There's a version here that's about ready to go out there but I really want to include some optimisation functionality before I release a major upgrade...
• Illustrate & 3D max by MasterPJ - seems rather complex and expensive, as I want to start with 2D first, to spark more interest in my brain ;-) Cheap guys use Blender + Blender plugin (search forum) + Ild Sos / Laserboy. It's not real time (yet ) but works equally well.

As I've been forced to do graphics for a convention for 2 years, I've had to learn using Photoshop and Inkscape from scratch and I've very much enjoyed it - especially Inkscape still seems to have rather cumbersome GUI so I can live with cheap options as long as there is some output at least and if the output looks in the lines of what i intend, then I can justify spending more $$$ to get some better tools! (yes, that means that I'm able to suffer through the curse-word "iShow" if necessary!) No you're not

(PL isn't smart enough to figure out I added some characters between the QUOTE tags so here are at least 15 more)

[Melgarh]

Thanks for the words of wisdom and answering my questions and insecurities! =)

@james: ah so laserboy is like ffmpeg of video world, which I use for various encoding/cutting/sound messing stuff. Thanks for the explanation! Its like my first day at work when my colleague was talking with another about choosing which AFP 2 IPDS or PCL output to use, so many strange words!

@colouredmirrorball: I believe that I'm very, very patient person but if LSX, as you, PJ and others have put to be that awesome, 200 bucks will go then and I will save myself some stress!

[colouredmirrorball]

Lsx is a good program for most people, but it becomes a magnificent program if you are able to figure out expressions. It's not compulsory to create good shows but you get so much more possibilities it's really worth it to figure out. Some things are retarded and others require some weird workarounds.

Be aware that LSX does not come with a DAC.

Another downside is that it's not exactly plug and play. You can't take it to a show and expect it to pull off live cues like for example quickshow can. You need a bit of time to figure out how exactly you want to use the program.

[Melgarh]

If you mean regular expressions, I do work a little with them in our special "Automation" program although they are mostly used to calibrate data filters and parses for XML's and some other stuff in Groovy. And as a software support engineer, workaround is another way how we say "solution"

DAC.. yeah, that's gonna be interesting. I do minor soldering, but its mostly just portable audio speakers using 18650 batteries with various LED lights. However I'm not gonna link any videos or photos, as ppl here would probably repeatedly apply their table to their heads in rapid succession motion. But not actual components together, just wire/input/output and it ain't pretty, not enough experience & tools. Guess I will have to keep watch on the market section for anybody selling some of their old gear to give it a new life.

Thanks for the heads up!

Oh yeah.. I also bake graphics cards,
Attachment 49424

[swamidog]

no. it's not regex.

it's a math expression scripting language for making amazing things.

If you mean regular expressions, I do work a little with them in our special "Automation" program although they are mostly used to calibrate data filters and parses for XML's and some other stuff in Groovy. And as a software support engineer, workaround is another way how we say "solution"

DAC.. yeah, that's gonna be interesting. I do minor soldering, but its mostly just portable audio speakers using 18650 batteries with various LED lights. However I'm not gonna link any videos or photos, as ppl here would probably repeatedly apply their table to their heads in rapid succession motion. But not actual components together, just wire/input/output and it ain't pretty, not enough experience & tools. Guess I will have to keep watch on the market section for anybody selling some of their old gear to give it a new life.

Thanks for the heads up!

Oh yeah.. I also bake graphics cards,
Attachment 49424

[james]

@james: ah so laserboy is like ffmpeg of video world, which I use for various encoding/cutting/sound messing stuff. Thanks for the explanation!

LaserBoy doesn't really let you do too much with sound. You can splice stereo audio into a 6 channel wave to make an 8 channel wave. But that is about the extent of its audio capabilities.

It lets you create full color 3D animations and it converts them into wave so you can display them on your projector with a sound card DAC.

Since it can read and write all formats of ILDA, it can also be used to prepare art for those SD card readers.

Also, it is open source, so you get all the code in C++. If you are so inclined, you can create your own frame and frame set effects. There are a lot of examples to work with.

[swamidog]

If you mean regular expressions, I do work a little with them in our special "Automation" program although they are mostly used to calibrate data filters and parses for XML's and some other stuff in Groovy. And as a software support engineer, workaround is another way how we say "solution"

DAC.. yeah, that's gonna be interesting. I do minor soldering, but its mostly just portable audio speakers using 18650 batteries with various LED lights. However I'm not gonna link any videos or photos, as ppl here would probably repeatedly apply their table to their heads in rapid succession motion. But not actual components together, just wire/input/output and it ain't pretty, not enough experience & tools. Guess I will have to keep watch on the market section for anybody selling some of their old gear to give it a new life.

Thanks for the heads up!

Oh yeah.. I also bake graphics cards,
Attachment 49424

i have a spare etherdream dac i can make you a deal on. works great with LSX and i'll even laser engrave something on it for you.