Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345
Results 41 to 47 of 47

Thread: I have some QS to sell

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Orlando, FL - USA
    Posts
    1,770

    Default

    Yes, he also sent me a nasty private message, stating that he purchased the legit copy from Pangolin China, for the full $595. We don't sell to companies in China for $595. Any corporate dealer gets a discount...

    Anyway, sure, he's trying to clean up now, but it kind of won't work... He doesn't understand the concept of "internet archive" whereby you can see what any web site looked like throughout history.

    Bill

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Czech Republic
    Posts
    63

    Default

    With Beyond, you could go the way of RSA key generator - paired to unique ID's and MAC ID's of the DAC. RSA cost about 40 USD per pop when bought in bulk of eg. 250 pieces. And breaking - programming - including RSA key by fake chinese sellers would be another HUGE obstacle. Sure, RSA's been breached, but it is still tons of work for hacker to get through. However that won't work for QS, sadly. If this was 20 years back, you could use the ancient PC game way where the users had to type in random sequence of words from the manual, good times

    The only thing, that will always make the difference of Legal vs Pirated software, is real support and feature updates. As long as the ID database is good and it is clear who has fake and who has real, then providing some extra after-sales support could help more (pre-recorded live-streamed training, workshop, what-not). Just throwing out some ideas that we use with our software. Naturally Internet-always-on license report-tracking and Salesforce/SAP business tracking is probably out of question, I presume.
    My kit: Mamba Elements V3 & DAC, ILD SOS & LaserCam, LaserDock DAC, Kvant Clubmax 1800 (2017)

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Orlando, FL - USA
    Posts
    1,770

    Default

    Good ideas. Already we have the Pangolin Shows Portal, which now has literally hundreds of laser shows usable by a variety of our software. People must register to use the portal, and it is during this registration process that we closely scrutinize the circumstances under which our product was purchased. Our license agreement specifically calls out that there are additional benefits given to those who purchase from legitimate dealers, and so we're already implementing one of your suggestions right now.

    Plus, like I said, fortunately for us, the pirate hardware will fail eventually. It could be a matter of weeks or months, depending on usage patterns, but it will fail. No question. And when it does, the user will contact us, and we'll get into a dialog. If the dialog bears out that they've acquired a counterfeit unit, we'll figure out how to handle things from there...

    Bill

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    DC/VA metro area
    Posts
    415

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Melgarh View Post
    With Beyond, you could go the way of RSA key generator - paired to unique ID's and MAC ID's of the DAC. RSA cost about 40 USD per pop when bought in bulk of eg. 250 pieces. And breaking - programming - including RSA key by fake chinese sellers would be another HUGE obstacle. Sure, RSA's been breached, but it is still tons of work for hacker to get through. However that won't work for QS, sadly. If this was 20 years back, you could use the ancient PC game way where the users had to type in random sequence of words from the manual, good times

    The only thing, that will always make the difference of Legal vs Pirated software, is real support and feature updates. As long as the ID database is good and it is clear who has fake and who has real, then providing some extra after-sales support could help more (pre-recorded live-streamed training, workshop, what-not). Just throwing out some ideas that we use with our software. Naturally Internet-always-on license report-tracking and Salesforce/SAP business tracking is probably out of question, I presume.
    The RSA and CryptoCard type dongles are generally used in a situation where you are authenticating off of a server for access, and that server in turn queries a back end authentication server. In the better situations it's both something you know (a password) and something you have (the tumbling authentication token number.) The end user never has root and administrator access to the system setup to authenticate.

    I don't think that type of authentication would be a good thing for an application that is locally used. You don't want to require internet access all the time to authenticate to the software you purchased, because trust me venues have jacked up internet and networks, and cellular can be a win or lose. Also, since you have full control over the local machine it's still wide open to NOP'ing the instructions that call the RSA authentication function. Crypto? Capture it once duplicate it forever, or snatch binary once it's decrypted and running.

    Once again, software is variable it always is. And the crazier the protections get the more it sucks for the end user.

    (Yes, my Beyond and 3 x FB3's are legit, I bought half straight from Pangolin and my other 2 x FB3s from a friend.)

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    veenwouden
    Posts
    2,580

    Default

    We don't sell to companies in China for $595. Any corporate dealer gets a discount...
    That,s all great but any hobbyist in the laserindustry can be a dealer of laserworld , pangolin , kvant products and you only see that in this industry. That is what the real cause is of it all. Buy a projector a quickshow package the next question is do you want to become a dealer and get the best prices!!! Kvant has retail prices, pangolin has retail prices and laserworld as well but i haven,t met anyone that actually buy full retail they all payed the dealer price. What,s the point of having retail prices then?

    If i want a better price i can contact laserworld, kvant and get the same price as a dealer wich is totally stupid since the dealer is also a protection for counterfitters so a customer know he is getting the real deal. Allot of buyers go to china because a quickshow package is cheaper then at their local dealer but cheap isn,t good at all. The customer saves a few bucks but bassically he screws the local dealer to make a decent living. The profit that the china sell goes to the local economy and not to the dealer wich buys his beer in the local pub.

    Sure you can buy from china but it needs to be a bit ballanced as your local neighbour that works at the metalshop has no job when you get all your stuff made in china.


    So when you have your next meet with the big players in the Industry wich is probably Prolight and Sound maybe its something to discus. Their are way to many dealers that is for sure and its hard to determine wich is a real dealer and who is just a hobbyist who wants to make a few bucks allong side his job.


    Interested in 6-12W RGB projectors with low divergence? Contact me by PM!

  6. #46
    mixedgas's Avatar
    mixedgas is offline Creaky Old Award Winning Bastard Technologist
    Infinitus Excellentia Ion Laser Dominatus
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    A lab with some dripping water on the floor.
    Posts
    9,890

    Default

    Fingerprint scanners work wonders on small items like FB sized packages. The neat thing is modern modules store the reference print but it cannot be accessed outside the module. Had that at my last employer on a laptop. At first I thought it would be a PITA for a traveling field engineer. I quickly learned to like it, provided I had enough prints stored of both hands. Very hackproof too, as the module has a unique was of delivering the authentication. If I needed to get in, a third party had a stored, sealed questionnaire that I had filled out. If need be, I could call in, help them locate the envelope, they could open it, and give me a bypass code.

    Steve
    Qui habet Christos, habet Vitam!
    I should have rented the space under my name for advertising.
    When I still could have...

  7. #47
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Rijen, NL
    Posts
    115

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
    Everybody:

    We are in the process of taking legal action against these unethical folks. Just as one example, late last year we learned of a company in The Netherlands selling counterfeit QS. The company sold only 8 pieces, and yet by the time all of the smoke cleared, they had to pay 20,000 Euro in damages to us (plus give us all of the counterfeit QS so they could not sell them). This was the company that sold the first few that failed and were returned for warranty repair.

    Please join with us in the fight against software piracy and hardware counterfeiting.

    Best regards,

    William Benner
    President, Pangolin Laser Systems

    Bill,

    It is good to see that you are taking action against such abuse.

    Perhaps it may be a wise idea to make a list on your website stating all the Pangolin Accredited companies per country, so users can easily see if a reseller of the products is a Pangolin Approved reseller or not. Anyone selling systems that is not on this list, may not be the wisest of places to buy from, for the end-users.

    I myself - as you know - deal directly with Collimated as our dealer/distro. It may help to list all resellers with links to their sites. If the reseller sells your products, so do you

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •