ILDA software, Windows 10 and more.

[sam]

Hi there!

For quite a long time I've been quietly watching from the outside, and so I know I'm touching something asked a few times before, but, you know, software evolves quickly, eheh.

So, I'm looking around in search of the program the would best fit my needs. I'm quite on a low budget, let's say around 500€ for both SW and interface. I can guess I would equally use it for live and programmed shows, with at least a couple of projectors.

If there were a EU reseller I would go for LSX+Etherdream right away, from what I can read here on PL that would be a good take.
Another option -- easier to find here -- may be Quickshow, I've read many positive reviews of it as a tool for live shows, but haven't found much evidence about its use in "timeline" shows. And additional interfaces are quite expensive and... USB only.
Then, there are Moncha, Mamba and Showeditor, all coming for less than half a k€, but I guess there are reasons why they're not mentioned really often here.

Are there any other options apart from LSX and Spaghetti that will work [out of the box?] with the Etherdream?
I would be quite apt to take that interface, since its open API would let me use it in other projects too.

And, last question for now, have you any experience with the SW I've mentioned running smoothly on, yeh, Win 10?

Thanks,
Sam

[JohnYayas]

Spaghetti does not work with Etherdream.

[Bradfo69]

I know I have typed this many times but will do so again.
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Yes Quickshow is excellent for putting together a timeline show, as well as for playing live. Simply put, Quickshow provides the most all around tools to get whatever job you want to get done, done. And be able to do it simply and easily. It's stable, powerful, easy to learn and use and has a tremendous amount of support, tutorial videos, installed user base to ask questions and, readily available content. It probably has the highest resale value should you ever decide this laser thing isn't for you. It's also the highest priced at that level of software. But really, when you think about it, you're talking about the difference of going out to a nice restaurant. What are we talking.... maybe 100 euro?
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Moncha is the closest thing that compares in terms of looks and some functions. The layout is very similar. It will get the job done but, it's not as polished and doesn't contain a lot of the features - particularly safety features, of Quickshow. It's decent for live play and also has a timeline but again, not as polished. I like a number of the cues in Moncha and wish I could import them into Quickshow. There is also a lot of content available available from the Showtacle website most all made by the programs creator.
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Showeditor from Laserworld (and HB Laserscan) is also a pretty powerful program but it goes about the process in a totally different fashion. I think it's probably better suited for creating shows on a timeline than it is for playing live. There are aspects of it that somewhat resemble LSX. It also requires it's own DAC similar to Quckshow and Moncha. There is a fair amount of content out there that can be collected and played. There was a version from 2009, and an update in 2011 that both used a DAC whose name escapes me now. HB Laserscan used the same DAC but, there was a modification made that wouldn't allow them to work with each other even though the program and DAC was basically the same. They sort of disappeared for awhile but Laserworld has just reintroduced it as Showeditor 2015 with a new DAC and the program is not compatible with the old DAC. The software however looks basically the same from what I have seen so far. I have a copy but haven't taken it out of the box yet.
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Mamba I know nothing about except that I am supposed to be getting a copy fairly soon to check out.
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On to software that can use a variety of DAC's.... This is where you start getting into the Etherdreams and Riyas. Programs like Spaghetti, LSX, the one that Grix on here created and so forth. (Oops! just saw Gary's reply above.) Most of these have been created and developed in the hobbyist world. They are all good at what they do. LSX is the most talked about and is extremely powerful. Personally I think it takes a certain type of individual to learn to use it. Some absolutely love it and create some amazing shows whereas others open it once in awhile and give up after messing around for a few minutes because it's too hard to understand. It's not intuitive to everybody. It is best used to create timeline shows. I don't know that it is particularly useful live. Spaghetti is also very good at what it does and that's to simply create and play laser shows. The developer, an active member here, is working on an updated version but, when you're a hobbyist, it's a labor of love and isn't your full time job so things take time. It's an excellent starting point and I wish all the people who ever wasted their money on iShow had bought Spaghetti instead. They'd be much happier folk.
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I know there are some other programs I haven't touched on, including some I own but, that gives you at least a little more information. Personally, the advice is.... this is NOT a cheap hobby. Accept it. Get over it. Boats, drugs and women are all better ways to spend your money. Bite the bullet and qet Quickshow. Spend the money to do things right the first time. You've got 500 euro to spend. Spend all of it and don't try to save 50 euro. At the very least, download the free demo of Quickshow and work with it. Watch the tutorials on Youtube starting with one and go right through like, 13 or whatever it is. Use two computers.... one with Quickshow running so you can move, click, and follow along, while watching the clips on another computer. Then make your decision.

[Grix]

I mostly agree with Bradfo but there is one big downside to quickshow that hasn't been mentioned, it doesn't support ILDA file export. I guess this is not a problem at the time you are creating and playing the shows yourself, but it can cause headaches down the road. For example you might want to share the shows you have created with other people that don't have Pangolin software, or you might change the software/DAC you are using and want to transfer all the shows you have created to the new software. You can't do this in quickshow unless the other software is also made by Pangolin. You are locked into their ecosystem. For this reason I wouldn't personally choose it, but I realize others may have different priorities.

[KANG]

Hi sam! Welcome to the forums.

Here are my thoughts real quick!

I've used Spaghetti, LSX, (QuickShow as of recently, thank you to Hunter!), and a little bit of Moncha.

When it comes to making shows there are ways of creating a show via timeline or live. I do not have a lot of work personally with live shows, but I hear Quickshow is good with this.

From a programmed/timeline perspective. I've done quite a few timelined shows with LSX, and it's not particularly difficult. You create a frame and animate it with events (position/rotation/color/etc) same thing with Quickshow.

LSX is particularly good at creating abstracts with loops and even its Lissajou editor. Quickshow which I am still learning/making my first beamshow on, seems to be a little bit more convenient in creating animations with beamshows, but lacks convenience where creating abstracts would dominate in LSX. When I say convenience I say it loosely because both softwares could do essentially the same for each other, however, it might take jumping through a few hoops through both to achieve the same result.

The primary concern here is, what is your intention with it? Do you want to do live shows? Programmed shows? Animations? Abstracts? Laser graphical mapping? The list goes on, and not one can incorporate everyone of those and excel perfectly in those areas.

While I could go on about all the fine details of each software... It is better to see what they can do in person here are some categories of different shows, using different software and decide from there.

Moncha Single Projector beamshow: 2nd place ILDA competition - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=296tyUKU9Js by Felyx/Lunaphase Lasers

LSX Single Projector abstract show: 1st place ILDA competition - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOKHPKBNmlM by Chris/Swamidog

LSX Multiple Projector beamshow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZHjSB5woN8 by David/Dkumpula

Quickshow Multiple Projector beamshow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5pCqdUie0w by Emile/ECS

LSX Single Projector beamshow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Qs5esv6LLo by Me

Now this is by no means a extensive list of what is capable of each software. They are all tools, how you decide to get your thoughts into beams/graphics/abstracts/etc is entirely up to you. That being said, I've played around with Spaghetti when I first got into lasers, also with LSX, a little bit of Moncha, and now some Quickshow. Each are capable of doing their own thing, but whichever makes you most comfortable might mean you end up spending more money playing around with some of them.

Quick verdict from my opinion so far (and I am no expert):

Spaghetti: Super easy to use interface (clean not noisy GUI), great to quickly get beams and simple animations.
LSX: Good for multiple projectors/timelines, not so great when it comes to live input/MIDI control can be a bit confusing, works well with TouchOSC Great for creating abstracts, decent with creating beamshows. Can easily create own frames with PicEdit
Quickshows: Good with multiple projectors, good for live input works well with Akai MkII I think, not so much with APC40 (not sure), works well with TouchOSC. Decent in creating some basic abstracts, good at creating beamshows. More difficult to create own frames.
Moncha: Good with single projector, very powerful with timing/transitions between animations. Limited number of timelines.

Quickshow, Moncha, LSX all work on Windows 10, and Spaghetti as far as I know, haven't played around on it, since its on my other computer which I gave to my brother.

Anywho, hope this helps!

[Bradfo69]

I didn't realize Quickshow worked well with TouchOSC. That's interesting and I'll have to explore it. Thanks!
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I wanted to add - after reading and re-reading - that to be fair, each particular piece of software has it's areas where it shines. Why I like Quickshow and encourage it is simply because it's the "Swiss Army Knife" of software. Collectively it does the most different things... well. And easily. Is it the absolute best in each area? No. It has it's limitations. If it didn't, Pangolin wouldn't have created Beyond. LSX for example is much more powerful in some specialized areas such as abstracts. And as mentioned, for doing multi projector shows, in the long run it's going to be cheaper because the DAC's are cheaper. LSX + 5 DAC's (Etherdreams) to run 5 projectors would set you back as little as $1140. Whereas 5 FB3's retail is close to $3,000. So yes there are pros and cons. I only push it because my feeling is whatever aspect of laser display you are into and whatever you may later decide you want to move toward, Quickshow will at least give you capable tools to get started, whereas others may lack an area or two.

[colouredmirrorball]

Can confirm LSX works with Windows 10.

[swamidog]

there are some people who have moved *from* QS to LSX.

QS is quite easy to get started making light with and is quite a good value, but it's (IMHO) not really designed for more sophisticated effects like beyond and lsx are.

I didn't realize Quickshow worked well with TouchOSC. That's interesting and I'll have to explore it. Thanks!
`
I wanted to add - after reading and re-reading - that to be fair, each particular piece of software has it's areas where it shines. Why I like Quickshow and encourage it is simply because it's the "Swiss Army Knife" of software. Collectively it does the most different things... well. And easily. Is it the absolute best in each area? No. It has it's limitations. If it didn't, Pangolin wouldn't have created Beyond. LSX for example is much more powerful in some specialized areas such as abstracts. And as mentioned, for doing multi projector shows, in the long run it's going to be cheaper because the DAC's are cheaper. LSX + 5 DAC's (Etherdreams) to run 5 projectors would set you back as little as $1140. Whereas 5 FB3's retail is close to $3,000. So yes there are pros and cons. I only push it because my feeling is whatever aspect of laser display you are into and whatever you may later decide you want to move toward, Quickshow will at least give you capable tools to get started, whereas others may lack an area or two.

[discothefunkyhippo]

Grix, does LasershowGen work on Windows 10?

I feel this would be a good companion to QuickShow because you could create content in LasershowGen and import it to Quickshow. Unfortunately the relationship only works one way, but its better than nothing. Also, if you can't spare the $25 for LasershowGen, there is a feature limited HTML version!!!

-Sal

[Bradfo69]

but it's (IMHO) not really designed for more sophisticated effects like beyond and lsx are.

Yes, multiple ILDA show award winning laserists have naturally more demanding needs.