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Thread: Brexit

  1. #131
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    This is the other part of the problem caused by the globalists.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1718871/at...airport-attack

    America, lead by Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama and with the help of Blair have caused tremendous misery and anger in the Middle East. Merkel and the EU immigration policy, with Turkey on the verge of EU membership threatens this kind of atrocity all over the Western world. Uncontrolled immigration, peppered with Islamic terrorists was another reason Brexit won. And, should have won.

    The British are a great people. They fought for the Magna Carta, they inspired the seed of American Democracy, they eliminated slavery from the Western world and they rejected globalist socialism with Brexit.

    Hopefully, others will see this courage and reason and and they too will exit the EU. Hopefully, Trump will prove to be something of what he claims and protect the US and halt this aggressive imperialism in the Middle East.

    Brexit is a philosophical victory and it's opponents are focusing on the pragmatic costs.

    Go Britain!

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laserhobbit View Post
    The 2nd vote rumour has shown to be a scam and is now being investigated by the police in the UK. For my mind the Uk is full of either sore losers or bad voters
    Very true but according to reports, only 77,000 signatures were found to have been cast illegally with still leaves over 4 million people (the new total) who think that democracy means that if a vote doesn't go your way you can ignore it:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...-hundreds-att/

    Quote Originally Posted by norty303 View Post
    I think the belief that the decision was given to the people is fundamentally wrong. They were asked their opinion on the matter.
    I also don't think that going against the majority is going to be as big an issue as Planters suggests. Firstly it was a narrow margin, secondly the way the public have reacted post-brexit I would wager that remain feelings are now greater, regardless of how people voted.
    Really? It's interesting to note that in the 2015 general election only 38% of the voters backed the Tories. Should we ignore the general election because the majority (62%) didn't want Conservative?

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by norty303 View Post
    This is interesting, in the context of the Chancellors mention of further austerity cuts...

    http://www.centreforwelfarereform.or...c8hPY.facebook
    Unfortunately the UN has no powers and can just be ignored.

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitelight
    Really? It's interesting to note that in the 2015 general election only 38% of the voters backed the Tories. Should we ignore the general election because the majority (62%) didn't want Conservative?
    No, but you're conflating 2 different processes. The General Election has a someewhat different outcome of the process where there is not clear majority, does it not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitelight
    Unfortunately the UN has no powers and can just be ignored.
    But as a marker of just how badly off we appear to be, and likely to get worse, its not looking good is it
    Frikkin Lasers
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    You are using Bonetti's defense against me, ah?

    I thought it fitting, considering the rocky terrain.

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by norty303 View Post
    No, but you're conflating 2 different processes. The General Election has a somewhat different outcome of the process where there is not clear majority, does it not?
    The figures for the General Election were 38% in favour of a Conservative Party, 62% against, so a bigger minority of the voter percentage in favour compared to Brexit. The overall majority vs any other party: 6%. (Conservatives 36.8%, Labour 30.4%)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...election,_2015

    The figures for Brexit were 52% leave, 48% remain. Majority vs Remain: 4%

    So the majority of votes for 2015 General election vs Brexit campaign was 6% vs 4%.

    Very similar majorities.

    Quote Originally Posted by norty303 View Post
    But as a marker of just how badly off we appear to be, and likely to get worse, its not looking good is it
    How would being in the EU help us with the UN? It has no power either way and the EU didn't stop the alleged breach of Human Rights did it?

  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitelight
    How would being in the EU help us with the UN? It has no power either way and the EU didn't stop the alleged breach of Human Rights did it?
    Did you not read my previous comment? I never suggested either of those.

    However, it doesn't stop the fact that the UN consider our CURRENT position to be in breach of human rights - before we even get into further austerity cuts. It has nothing to do with being in/not in the EU being able to influence the UN, but everything to do with the EFFECTS of us being in/not in the EU.
    Frikkin Lasers
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    You are using Bonetti's defense against me, ah?

    I thought it fitting, considering the rocky terrain.

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by White-Light View Post
    ....... It's interesting to note that in the 2015 general election only 38% of the voters backed the Tories. Should we ignore the general election because the majority (62%) didn't want Conservative?
    Sounds good to me !
    Cheers

  8. #138
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    i totally agree that if the terms for minimum turnout and minimum agreement were set before the vote then there would be a lot less margin for debate. a shame as I think this was misleading on both sides.
    The vote is voluntary. You are supposed to be a democracy, not an authoritarian state. If the vote is suppressed by force or if by external events such as war or a natural disaster then an argument can be made for invalidating the result or repeating the process. But, for the looser to arbitrarily call the result in question because the level of interest by the public fails to reach some threshold is ridiculous.

    I'm not sure I've ever argued that we should have another vote. I have suggested that other mechanisms may come into play now that might lead to us not simply coming out as people expect. Time will tell.
    It sounded as if you did, but OK. Otherwise, I agree with you here. The point and the more illuminating point is that what happens will not be as Cameron expected and Junkers and Merkel demanded. This is really important. The British citizens have been forced to tolerate huge excesses in immigrant numbers, way over what Cameron promised and without recourse. EU intrusion into British businesses (the fishing industry is a good example) has been painful for a lot of citizens and they have no redress from Brussels.

    They voted and despite the predictions of many in government and the media, despite the quibbling about enthusiasm, despite the distortions on both sides, despite Boris' bus and Jo Cox's murder, they voted to leave.

    This wasn't a fluke. Other members are seriously considering leaving and for some of the same reasons.

    The EU is a man made construct. It isn't a fundamental physical law. It wasn't around 50 years ago and there is no reason that it will be around in 10. If the member nations and their citizens do not support it and I don't mean universally, but in great enough numbers then it will fall. But, in real time, there are bureaucrats and big business CEOs that have forged very sweet relationships with the EU politicians. A lot of money is being routed through this entity and they are going to be very resistant to a reduction or elimination of this sow.

  9. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Planters
    But, for the looser to arbitrarily call the result in question because the level of interest by the public fails to reach some threshold is ridiculous.
    Not ridiculous at all. Many votes require minimum turnout to be carried - union votes for one (unions, what are they??)
    I suspect it would encourage more people to turn out on important matters, but the key thing is that the terms are set BEFORE the vote.

    And its not the looser who arbitrarily calls anything, its simply the outcome of the vote. And then we go around again.


    Quote Originally Posted by Planters
    despite Boris' bus and Jo Cox's murder, they voted to leave
    Eh?

    Don't you mean 'because of'?
    Frikkin Lasers
    http://www.frikkinlasers.co.uk

    You are using Bonetti's defense against me, ah?

    I thought it fitting, considering the rocky terrain.

  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by norty303 View Post
    Well, I think I mentioned previously that there is precedent in voting where margins were small and whilst not totally conclusive, a good number did go for a re-vote. I have been trying to save images of these sorts of interesting things as I come across them, but I'll need to try and have a search for this one.
    Please post one if you find it. Conditions for a revote are never decided after the results as far as I'm aware.

    Well, it sounds to me as if a proportion at least wanted something other than they voted for, but voted Leave as a protest, or out of ignorance of the implications, or due to being made promises that turned out to be false (or whatever...)
    Again it sounds condescending towards a proportion of the demos to assume they voted for such ridiculous reasons.
    This is what people want. Trying to change their mind through scare tactics by the media, government, EU is pretty pathetic if you ask me.

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