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Thread: Do you need a varience...

  1. #1
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    Question Do you need a varience...

    Do you need a varience to do a public show, or professional show?

    There is a BMX/Skate park for the kids around here. It is run by a non profit Christian group. My cousin takes his 11 year old there all the time and has been helping them build ramps. They actually have a lot of stuff for kids to do, ramps, video games, 4 or so courts that can be set up for various ball sports. They do lockins on the weekends sometimes and he said that once I get my lasers in a box I should bring the projector in for a one. Do I need to be fully legal for this?
    Love, peace, and grease,

    allthat... aka: aaron@pangolin

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    Cool

    Is there commerce involved? If so, the CDRH has jurisdiction and you need a variance. Profit status is irrelevent. All that matters is commerce. (The exchanging of money.) So if there is an admission fee, you need a variance - even if you personally aren't getting paid to do the show.

    On another note, consider this: Even if there is no commerce involved and thus no federal requirement for a variance, if there is ever an "incident" (regardless of the validity of the claim of injury), you are going to be dragged into court and the first question any decent lawyer is going to ask you is, "Why didn't you get a variance? Is it because your projector is UNSAFE?" Then he'll go on and on about how the CDRH guidelines make a projector safe, and you didn't follow one of those guidelines and thus the plantiff got injured. It doesn't need to be true, it just needs to sound good enough to convince a jury.

    Now, if the whole thing is volunteer-based and free to the public, then you might decide to risk it. But you still have the legal liability mentioned above. For sure no crowd scanning! Make sure the whole show conforms to CDRH guidelines as far as beam height and audience separation. But even so you're taking a chance....

    Adam
    Last edited by buffo; 06-22-2007 at 03:22.

  3. #3
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    mixedgas is online now Creaky Old Award Winning Bastard Technologist
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    [QUOTE=Buffo;24468]Is there commerce involved? If so, the CDRH has jurisdiction and you need a variance. Profit status is irrelevent. All that

    New one, if a pilot sees you from above, outdoors even if your terminated , FAA may choose to charge you with "FELONY" "Interfering with a aircrew"
    if no varience. Hey the paperwork takes them time, but should be easy with the support of groups like this and the packet the CDRH sends you contains guidelines. If you can solder a XY_RGB cable, you can get a simple vari, its rally only about 20 pages , most of them simple drawings, for the manufacturer's report, the actual varience is 5 pages, one of which is a 3 page form.

    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by mixedgas View Post
    New one, if a pilot sees you from above, outdoors even if your terminated , FAA may choose to charge you with "FELONY" "Interfering with a aircrew"
    WOW! I didn't know that! Good call Steve. (Damn, this is yet another sign of the post-9/11 hysteria surrounding lasers.) Though I suppose if your total power level is under a watt and you are terminated really close to the ground (say less than 50 feet), the pilot wouldn't be able to see it in the first place. (Let's hope not anyway, or else I'll never be able to do a backyard show ever again!)

    Adam

  5. #5
    mixedgas's Avatar
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    The memo went out last year, pilots are expected to report all laser activity they see. My buddies phoenix show 3 miles from the airport got reported within a hour, with only 2x 3 watt 532 nm systems outdoors and beams terminated in less then 5oo-700 feet with walls completely around the complex, ie they saw it from directly above, looking downwards and maybe from one open side.

    Look, There have only been a few prosecutions, but why take the risk, the main prosecution was that guy who lied to the FBI in New Jersey about what happened when a pointer got aimed at a charter jet and they came back and found him with a police helo. He really didnt have much of a laser charge against him as he did with civil charges on how he handled it later but he got charged with: Federal interfering with a mass transit vehicle and making false statements, somehow under Patriot Act. Supposedly he hit a citation jet at 3000 feet using a green yag designed for fiber optics testing. The guy was a fiber tech, he shoulda/coulda knew better.
    (ref USA Today Online edition) He was looking at 25 years 50K fines. He reached a plea agreement in return for the dropping of the false statements charges, REf www.infowars.com 9 NOV 2005. He got 18-24 months and a felony conviction , which was later dropped to a time served and 100$ fine, but it cost him his job due to the felony conviction not to mention a heck of lot of national publicity of the negitive sort. SEE BELOW for whats before the Senate:

    ref: (usa today online edition)
    refhttp://www.usdoj.gov/usao/nj/press/files/bana1109_r.htm
    ref: http://www.aero-news.net/Community/D...2790&Refresh=1

    And then there is this:
    It passed the house and is forwarded to the senate:

    Securing Aircraft Cockpits Against Lasers Act of 2007
    Amends the federal criminal code to impose a fine and/or prison term of up to five years

    SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

    This Act may be cited as the “Securing Aircraft Cockpits Against Lasers Act of 2007”.

    SEC. 2. PROHIBITION AGAINST AIMING A LASER POINTER AT AN AIRCRAFT.

    (a) Offense.—Chapter 2 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

    Ҥ 39A. Aiming a laser pointer at an aircraft

    “(a) Whoever knowingly aims the beam of a laser pointer at an aircraft in the special aircraft jurisdiction of the United States, or at the flight path of such an aircraft, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

    “(b) As used in this section, the term ‘laser pointer’ means any device designed or used to amplify electromagnetic radiation by stimulated emission that emits a beam designed to be used by the operator as a pointer or highlighter to indicate, mark, or identify a specific position, place, item, or object.

    “(c) This section does not prohibit aiming a beam of a laser pointer at an aircraft, or the flight path of such an aircraft, by—

    “(1) an authorized individual in the conduct of research and development or flight test operations conducted by an aircraft manufacturer, the Federal Aviation Administration, or any other person authorized by the Federal Aviation Administration to conduct such research and development or flight test operations;

    “(2) members or elements of the Department of Defense or Department of Homeland Security acting in an official capacity for the purpose of research, development, operations, testing or training; or

    “(3) by an individual using a laser emergency signaling device to send an emergency distress signal.

    “(d) The Attorney General, in consultation with the Secretary of Transportation, may provide by regulation, after public notice and comment, such additional exceptions to this section, as may be necessary and appropriate. The Attorney General shall provide written notification of any proposed regulations under this section to the Committees on the Judiciary of the House and Senate, the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure in the House, and the Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation in the Senate not less than 90 days before such regulations become final.”.


    -------------------------
    Steve
    Last edited by mixedgas; 06-22-2007 at 16:36. Reason: added details and references and updated penalty

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    Thanks guys! No public til varienced...

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    the act says it all- laser pointers
    shows with their paperwork in order= no problem-
    allwhichthatis- call me about your pending varience status
    and this event of yours
    go big or go home

  8. #8
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    Talking

    Quick eye, I jumped over "pointer" the first read.

    Technically I am no where near "pending" I just wanted an excuse to take the projector out to show... It is the irresponsable side of me trying to win out. and the lockins happend every few weekends, there will be plenty more. I'll still give you a call. I have been meaning to, but working the night shift makes me nervous about calling people. It is always too early or too late.

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