need big mirror scanners, speed is least of concerns

[catalanjo]

..... With that size beam, these mirrors can scan about 50 degrees in the X direction and 60 degrees in the Y direction before any kind of clipping/overspilling/etc. ...

Pity no one thought to make that Y mirror a lot longer .....most beamers don't need much Y range but could sure as hell use a lot more X
Cheers
PS @ "Interesting. What is their speed and do they need different type amps?" different from which type ???
They need their own amps, which are pretty easy to build. !
If you are in the states and have a tight budget , believe me the GS300 or 300PDs are by far your best bet....they are available second hand, last forever, and return to rest due to their torsion bar (handy for high powers), ...just a tad big & slow but you can hang your bathroom mirror off them as they are very very very ROBUST!

[rns0504]

The Y mirror really needs to be as short as possible. Trust me, its certainly been thought of, as there are no stones left unturned.

Its a tangentially related function, not linear.

At smaller scan angles, a small addition of mirror length adds a pretty linear amount of scan angle, up to 40 degrees or so. It comes to a point where when to add judt a few degrees, the Y mirror length needs to be doubled! This can cause huge resonance problems which can't be solved by tuning or filters. Think of it like a diving board- a short diving board won't resonate much. Double the length of the board, the end of the mirror resonates like crazy!

The additional Y scan angle is related to the fact that these scanners use a 15 degree set back on the X scanner. Most chinese companies don't understand this concept, and the related benefits, and therefore have orthogonal mounts.

I'd highly recommend reading the chapter in Bill's book on "Mirror Sizing Practices"! Very helpful and the e-book can be had for 99 cents! Plus there are illustrations to further reinforce the concepts

[catalanjo]

Strangely enough Ryan ...I do understand the concepts involved...but the "few extra degrees" which you so lightly dismiss are very important in many installations, to the extent of totally overriding the speed restrictions involved .
Also I think the reason for many Chinese manufacturers not having a set back is solely motivated by PRICE not due to ignorance !
Cheers

[rns0504]

I hope you didnt take my message as condecending or suggesting you don't understand the concepts, as text is a rather cold medium

The mirror sets posted on the site are our most common turn-key solutions which solve most peoples problems. I develop new mirror sets for clients sometimes on a several-per-month basis, including one that can do a 10mm beam almost 70 degrees, for an industrial application. It would be sort of an "information overload" to list every possible set we have in stock with every possible scanner, so we typically just discuss the sets that appease the needs of most people.

Out of curiosity - what kind of angles are important for your application?

As for the comment on price vs ignorance - I can believe that to an extent. However, working with nearly every model of scanner ever manufactured by nearly every company (nearly 10 meters of workbench space), and having disassembled and reassembled and tested and 3D modeled most of those - sometimes certain things that some manufacturers do just make you scratch your head. This isn't an attack on any manufacturer or region as no company is the best at everything. And it's just hard to have sympathy for a company (companies) who has directly cloned the work of another company (albeit sometimes poorly) , infringing on patent after patent along the way.

[mixedgas]

I have a single set of the large mirror 506 new in the box. A customer had them shipped to me for system integration. A neighbor lady signed for the FedEx (That should NOT have happened) and then brought them over many many months too late. I paid for another set for the customer in the end, and lost money on the deal. I have drawings for them. Nii, if you want them, drop me a PM and we'll discuss a decent price so I can recover some money. You can get the amps from Slicklasers. I'd request a price for the amps before buying the galvos from me. I can scan you the outline drawings, in the morning. Then you can get the CAD file from Pangolin.
!
And I can set you up with two sets of Cambridge Moving Coil galvos with amps if you want really huge mirrors...:-) They actually are quite fast.

Steve

[Nii]

different from which type ???
They need their own amps, which are pretty easy to build. !

Well, most "modern" amps can be made to work with 506 with modification. Is it a similar case with these older scanners? I'm not sure I like the idea of building a whole board.

If you are in the states and have a tight budget , believe me the GS300 or 300PDs are by far your best bet....they are available second hand, last forever, and return to rest due to their torsion bar (handy for high powers), ...just a tad big & slow but you can hang your bathroom mirror off them as they are very very very ROBUST!

I looked in amazon and ebay, couldn't find anything.

I have a single set of the large mirror 506 new in the box. A customer had them shipped to me for system integration. A neighbor lady signed for the FedEx (That should NOT have happened) and then brought them over many many months too late. I paid for another set for the customer in the end, and lost money on the deal. I have drawings for them. Nii, if you want them, drop me a PM and we'll discuss a decent price so I can recover some money. You can get the amps from Slicklasers.

Thank. It will take some time before I decide what I'm going for after I get responses and information from all these companies. If you'll sell them before that no worries.

And I can set you up with two sets of Cambridge Moving Coil galvos with amps if you want really huge mirrors...:-) They actually are quite fast.

I feel like I know nothing about these scanners yet. So far i've heard they can handle any size mirrors. But what about their performance, comparably? And do they require a custom mount? How big are they?

working with nearly every model of scanner ever manufactured by nearly every company (nearly 10 meters of workbench space), and having disassembled and reassembled and tested and 3D modeled most of those

Do you by any chance have CAD files containing the DT20 and PT-A20 mirrors? hehe

[norty303]

No CAD, but here is the link to Rob's site which has the DT20 specs. you should be able to model the mirrors from that.

http://shop.stanwaxlaser.co.uk/dt-20...ners-373-p.asp

[mixedgas]

No, its not quite any size "scanner can handle any size mirror if you slow down enough..."
!
Mirror inertia should be between 1/1oth and 10 times the shaft inertia on older scanners... With less inertia being better.
Inertia is different from Mass, far Different... IF the Inertia is too big, the amps start to issues with not returning to the commanded position and or damped oscillation when the motion ends..
!
Amps often do have selected components installed at the factory. Cambridge Amps with their broad tuning range have spoiled many a laser show guy, but older Cambridge amps get "tuned" by the installation of different Resistors an Capacitors. If you jump up or down two sizes of galvo, you change quite a few parts. Ie The massive 6860 may work on a 6800 amp, but you may not receive peak performance without changing a few parts.
!
Pangolin's new Scannermax uses a different shaft arrangement so their mirror to shaft inertia ratio is far different then the old rules..
!
What your looking for would rarely show up on Amazon. Amazon demands massive sales volume from its vendors...
Generally galvos that are worth buying come direct from the manufacturer or a distributer.
!
Your Google-Fu is weak,.... G300s are G330s, But a G325 has a flexure suspension which is more accurate in cross axis motion, however being slightly slower and havin a lower first resonance. General Scanning/GSI/Lumonics older Galvos have a torsion bar and will thus run open loop. Faster galvos have no Torsion Bar to return the shaft to center, and thus must have a position sensor. There are always old marking systems on ebay with slow or moderate speed galvos for big mirrors, but that is usually a step backward unless you have a Laserscope KTP or a Copper Vapor laser, both of which are sort of dying technologies kept going by a very few.
!
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw...ning+&_sacat=0
!
There are G100, G120, and G300, G330, G325 that have the position sensor for closed loop, a giveaway is two black cables coming out of the galvo, one for coils, one for sensor. There are also open loop out there, ie G108, G124...
!
A G330 can throw beams around the whole room, with mega mirror and mega angle, but most clients these days want something much faster then 200-300 Hertz max small angle.. I do keep a pair of 330s for the day I have to do a gig where I need to wrap beams around the room, but since I have Pangolin's neat little lens, that is less and less likely. A good reason to own a 330DT with a CX660 amp is to pan a whole scan from an existing projector around a room, or to have a movable "beam bounce" mirror downstage.
!
http://pangolin.com/shop/discoscan-lens/
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Scannermax is just so much better engineered, even if you have to deal with amplifier "quirks" at first. Then Cambridge if you can afford it, then Eyemagic....
!
Chinese scanners usually have poor bearings, and ceramic bearings are far superior... I consider most Chinese scan sets something you throw out once a year if your using it daily.
!
I also never place my eggs in one basket. There is always a spare set of amps and galvos in the tool kit, and usually a spare PSU. I hate driving 700 miles and losing a show... With modern hardware being somewhat cheaper, these days its a spare projector if you tour. However, if one fails, find out why before you hook the spare to the same power and the same control cables.... :-)
!
Lasershow folks are one of the reasons ceramic bearings were adopted for better galvos.. Ie early 6800 often had a short lifetime compared to 6800H or 6800HP with the better bearings.
!
In the olden days we could easily buy thin dielectric mirror stock and make our own "UPSIZED" mirrors, but consumerism has driven the thin mirror stock off the market. Its a bitch to cut if you don't have enough to practice on.
!


Steve

[Nii]

No CAD, but here is the link to Rob's site which has the DT20 specs. you should be able to model the mirrors from that.

Please tell me if I angled the mirrors right.
（X）12X14X1mm （Y）10X20X1mm



If its right then with 7mm it barely fits on the Y mirror and with 6.5mm you get only few degrees before overspilling.

[rns0504]

Do you by any chance have CAD files containing the DT20 and PT-A20 mirrors? hehe

I've got some PT-A10s and what MIGHT be some DT30s? It has matching mirrors, 6.5mmx10.7mm or so. I modeled it in August 2014 and saved it in a folder of random chinese scanner stuff, so not exactly sure what it was