Burningman LEM - Is this something YOU might be interested in

[zerowaitstate]

I have been contemplating going to a Burningman for the last few years and am putting the idea forward that we do a Burningmanlem camp... Things have gone to far to do a 2017 camp, but 2018 could be a good year to plan for, and would allow time for people all over the world to book holiday time and save funds.

I have always thought all the LEM's i read about are fantastic ... and to short, I for one would not get tired of frigging with lasers for a week solid, and i imagine some insane shows / could be brought to bear in a camp with over a week to collaborate with fellow laser enthusiasts.

I would be willing to put some fundage into the kitty to help facilitate some camp materials.by 2018 i might be willing to sacrifice a couple of KVANTS to the playa, if they have earnt their keep by then, or alternatively we have mange to playa proof some enclosures.

So im just putting it out there, if there is any interest we will create a thread and see what eventuates

[mixedgas]

Might want to check up on the laser rules after what happened to the Ranger who lost an eye to a laser pointer.



Steve

[10Fenny]

I thought I was just handhelds that were banned

[White-Light]

https://burningman.org/event/black-r...-guide/lasers/

[zerowaitstate]

While im not from the US... (would be coming from Australia). i plan to attend 2017 ILDA conference and am looking to complete the Laser Saftey Officer training course. Given the time frame i m sure we could arrange a variance for the camp. Im all from doing it safe and blowing peoples minds not eye balls.

[mixedgas]

Except you, as a foreign national, cannot easily hold a variance. I've hit this before, you need a responsible US citizen or resident for the paperwork. Its not an widely published official rule, but it is enforced at the paperwork stage. I've "went before" the CDRH as a rep for a German company, to help them understand why they were hit with an import ban. That way some one can be held liable, as 21 CFR violations are mostly civil proceedings and not really an extraditable offence. Before a variance is issued, they usually do check whom is whom.


Steve

[norty303]

I built lasers for a non-US camp, and was supposed to be going there to run them, until I couldn't go.
The camp fill out details of the installation and any operator, including details of any training, etc. There was no requirement to get any US person involved at any point, nor produce any variance documentation.
They will be on the Playa again in 2017, doing the same thing. I quite like the common sense approach personally.

[mixedgas]

Norty, There was NO requirement to see the required paperwork from the event management. There IS a requirement under US law for public laser demonstrations. Enforcement IS being ramped up in the US. We have government funding here for laser enforcement again. Why take the risk when the paperwork is not that bad? US law places the responsibility on the owner/user of the laser and its manufacturer. Event management, to a point, may get to gloss over things if they did not hire the laser.
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Just because event management does not require a variance, that does not mean the Federal or State requirement is waved... That does not mean personal liability is waved, or Nevada State law just disappears. Your at a paid entry event on Bureau of Land Management Federal land... Law enforcement may be tolerating some things they would not normally tolerate, but the rules and civil liability did not disappear because its "Burning Man".
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Just because the construct of "Black Rock City, LLC" gets its guests to sign an entry waver, does not mean the rule of law magically disappears on the other side of the fence.
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Attend a US small event risk management seminar some time, and you would be amazed at just how liable an entertainment provider can be, non-profit or otherwise. The liability waver /hold harmless concept in public events died a quiet death long ago. Especially after a certain state fair accident and a certain night club fire. While the event may have enough money to endlessly tie up a civil case in court, criminal charges can still prevail, and a really good lawyer can negate the waver in case of a serious injury, especially if the case is between two event attendees. Read the Terms and Conditions at http://tickets.burningman.org/terms-and-conditions... See any language to protect any given guest against legal action by another event guest? Its not there. It protects Black Rock City, LLC, but does not hold harmless all participants from their own liabilities.
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The T and C does mention they have oversight over laser safety by being able to search persons/vehicles for handheld and "mounted" laser devices and pyro.
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Steve

[norty303]

I think you misunderstood me Steve. I'm not advocating people going there and doing what they will, I'm simply suggesting an international person not get a local involved for the purposes of having a variance. For a start the kit being brought in most definitely wouldn't.
But you'd still go in with all the appropriate insurance and training and operate the show under local regs.

[mixedgas]

This is not the EU, its a different soccer game here... With the exception of three states and a few cities, its all FEDERAL. The three states want the Federal paperwork filed first, as well.
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The German company I did work for had three choices when dealing with CDRH's enforcement action, 1. Stop doing business in the US, 2. Set up a local, incorporated subsidiary with an American Employee and a enough money to cover a recall or product liability in a US Bank , or 3. Hire a consultant/distributer who was a US Citizen. That US citizen was to hold the liability for the manufacturing/use, file the manufacturing report paperwork, pay for recalls if needed, have insurance, and apply for/hold the variances locally.
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You realize he needs a form 2877 to import the lasers, or he could lose them at Customs, right?
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That form has very specific implications for un-approved laser products. It has prohibitions on the entry into trade of un-approved Class IIIB and IV laser products on a temporary import. Traditionally it has been held that any use of a laser as a show device in public is entry into trade, even by a non-profit.
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He needs a variance, the variance comes from the FEDs, not the locals. The variance requires the use of approved projectors.
Traditionally a visiting Laserist on tour engages a US National for the laser safety.
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He may or may not be able to do this, and the only way to do so is contact CDRH, see if they will approve, get the manufacturer's report submitted if needed, apply for the variance if allowed, and file the import paperwork as needed.
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A lot of IFs, and he probably needs a US Citizen to do part of the paperwork, and possibly hold the liability. I'm not a lawyer, but I am well aware that this is a grey area. Its a lot easier to receive the lasers in the US, if a US National who is a Laserist with a variance, and who is going to Burning Man helps him out.
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He could just get away with it, but it would be a darn shame if his projectors were held at Customs for weeks or months, as has been known to happen. Even worse if they were seized and destroyed.

Steve