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Thread: how much fog/haze for indoor and outdoor? (rough estimate needed)

  1. #1
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    Default how much fog/haze for indoor and outdoor? (rough estimate needed)

    I knew this was very likely asked before but only found a very long flamewar threads about homemade fog fluids and safety.

    I just swapped my 1500W chinese fogger with a 1800W german one. Don't expect much difference and 1500W already produced plenty of fog indoors for large rooms and even auditoriums without extreme ventilation syste,s although needed to wait for it to reheat and generate fog several times.

    Now I'm building 3 10W projectors and need something appopriate for them. I think for the same size venues as before 1800W fogger should still suffice if it was enough for 1.2W before.
    But while I'm at it swapping old stuff and upgrading I'm thinking of trying ot hazers.
    Two things come to my mind about which I'm completely clueless.
    One is how hazer power in Watts is chosen for given area size. I have gotten the same info I needed with the foggers but it was by trial and error, some mediocre shows while I was learning because of poor knowledge and I was fortunte enough that the 1500W I had gotten was sufficient for all my work.

    I don't want to end up the same way with hazers this time as a) this time around I might not be as lucky and end up buying an underpowered hazer which aren't that cheap anyway and b) I have certain reputation now and don't want to ruin it by looking like an amateur again who is still learning his equipment. So this is how and why you can help me here.
    No I don't have a big enough testing environment to learn all this by trial and error outside of shows.

    When it comes to outdoors I don't have experience with foggers as well so any tips on creating an atmosphere outdoors less likely to dissipate very quickly will be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
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    hazers are the way to go, buy quality 1st time around you wont regret it. most will be rated cubic ' or meters per minute. OPT for DMX control so you can ramp up and down as required .

    I have 2 antari 350z and find given a bit of time the fill very large area quite nicely.


    remember with haze the room can look apparently clear but there is plenty of medium for laser beams and other intel lighting

    creating atmosphere out doors is always a PITA using dmx you can have a number of hazers on line and just pump the ones that are where the wind is blowing from an allow it to drift through desired area

  3. #3
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    Thanks. But isnt what youre using a fazer?

  4. #4
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    The antari 350Z is indeed a fazer. So a fog machine + a fan. Typically the cheaper ones don't perform any better than a normal fog machine that has a box fan sitting behind it. That being said, some of the higher-end fazers do really well even when operating in continuous output mode.

    I have heard good things about the Tour Hazer, but it's rather pricey for what you get. The Look Solutions Unique hazer is another nice model, but again, it's pricey. Top of the line would probably be the Base Hazer pro, from Hazebase. However, that's got a top of the line price tag to match.

    If you are looking into oil-based haze, the DF-50 is an obvious choice, but I have found that the American DJ Haze Machine will produce about 50% as much haze as the DF-50 for a fraction of the price. The American DJ unit only costs $450 (as opposed to $2800 for the DF-50). And being an oil-based unit, it uses almost no fluid.

    A final tip: If you go with a fog machine, seriously consider using "FROGGY'S SWAMP JUICE" fog solution from Froggy's Fog. It is hands-down the best fluid for traditional fog machines, and it also works well with most fazers. Great hang time, no clogs, and no foul smells. I swear by the stuff.

    Adam

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by buffo
    I have heard good things about the Tour Hazer, but it's rather pricey for what you get. The Look Solutions Unique hazer is another nice model, but again, it's pricey. Top of the line would probably be the Base Hazer pro, from Hazebase. However, that's got a top of the line price tag to match.
    The 3 units you have mentioned are basically the same unit, in different configurations. Unique uncased, and Tour Hazer and Base Hazer Pro built into flight cases or different proportions.
    I use the latter 2 because they're cased and stand up better on the road.
    I have the Tour Hazer service manual and its equally applicable to the Base Hazer.

    Fluid for each of them is the same, I just buy whatever is cheapest at the time, usually Unique fluid. Note, you MUST use the proper hazer fluid from either of the manufacturers, regular hazer or fog fluid won't cut it. It seems quite expensive, but the machines are very frugal.

    Personally I think they are good value for money, with great spares support should you require it.

    As has been said, when outdoors, its not how much you have, its where you put it. Either have lots all around your arena, or have points wired with DMX and power around the place that you can move as required.
    That said, we normally only bother with power, set them to 100% fan and 70% fluid pump (the sweet spot of output vs consumption) and let them run.
    Over a 3 day festival running from 8pm (sundown) to 4am (stage close) we did less than 5l of fluid through each unit, with them pumping continuously.
    Frikkin Lasers
    http://www.frikkinlasers.co.uk

    You are using Bonetti's defense against me, ah?

    I thought it fitting, considering the rocky terrain.

  6. #6
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    Oh, forgot to mention, with any haze/fog outdoors, its all about dispersion.
    I regularly see LDs and laser guys pumping really dense lumps of fog out of big foggers. It creates impassable walls of fog in very localised places.
    What we want is a nice even fog, really doesn't need to be very thick.
    I place the fogger facing upwind (away from the stage/area) and have a fan blowing sideways through SOME of the stream (the rest stays in line with the fogger, whilst some goes out sideways). This creates a really dispersed cloud that will then move over your display area in the biggest cloud possible. Other tricks are to fire it at things that will break it up. A tree is very good for this as its circular, so some goes off it in both directions. Be creative, but always think 'how can I break this up better'
    Frikkin Lasers
    http://www.frikkinlasers.co.uk

    You are using Bonetti's defense against me, ah?

    I thought it fitting, considering the rocky terrain.

  7. #7
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    Thanks all.
    Still unsure how many and how powerful to get for a small (400 sq m) outdoor projection.
    The projectors are 10W rgb btw.

  8. #8
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    Just as a side note, 10 watts outside will actually still be quite visible with just the natural humidity in the atmosphere. You may not need quite as much additional haze as you think BUT, better to have more than less!
    PM Sent...

  9. #9
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    Less is more.

    I agree with what Norty said, it's very easy for fog to block the light and actually reduce visibility.

    Personally, I find it easier to control with a hazer than fog (probably because the effect is lighter). I tend to haze initially based on judgement of what I know works and then as it starts to fade I top up with very small amounts so I can assess if I need more or have the levels just right. It's impossible to give any kind of quantification as that will depend on venue size, air movement and the type of machine / haze / fog in use. My only advice would be haze lightly. Most people prefer a room that doesn't look fogged and it's always easier to add fog / haze than to take it away as the latter requires waiting some minutes for settlement to occur whereas haze / fog is added in seconds. I also agree with Marc, haze is far superior and much easier to control.

  10. #10
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    I should clarify my statement above - yes less is better for viewing but, what I meant was... better to have more capacity available to use if necessary based on wind conditions and such. Meaning I'd rather have 4 hazers ready and only use two, than only have two and discover I really should have had 4, since the weather wasn't cooperating.
    PM Sent...

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