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Thread: Been lurking on these forums for a year. I still need help.

  1. #11
    Bradfo69's Avatar
    Bradfo69 is offline Pending BST Forum Purchases: $47,127,283.53
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    On projectors - biggest thing as you already know, is that they be legal. Lightspace from Walt and Able are both good choices. I don't know that Swisslas or ECS are. You should also consider speaking with Adam Raugh who replied to your thread above about X-Laser's offerings and, specifically the Skywriter HPX Tours, both 2 and 5 watt. You mentioned not knowing about going ILDA versus DMX since you'd like to use Artnet. They are two really separate animals. If you were just thinking beams, then it could potentially be either one with the advent of the Mercury system that X-Laser has. However, if you're thinking about the 3D mapping, then you really need to think ILDA and Beyond. Now.... Beyond itself can be triggered via DMX/Artnet from what I understand but, I don't know exactly how it works. There are those on here that do. I'm sure with the pyro that you're learning about, that's why you're thinking alog the lines of DMX/Artnet but, ILDA is ultimately going to give you the most control and leave you open to more advanced things such as the 3D mapping.

    DMX/Artnet is really more for lights, pyro and that sort of stuff and ILDA is traditionally more for lasers however, the Mercury system is changing that and making lasers more accessible to lighting designers who are more in the DMX/Artnet world. There are still limitations with it but, it's significantly more advanced than it was even a few months ago, thanks to Mercury.

    Invest in Beyond and a single FB3 just to get started. Update Beyond at Christmas time when it's on sale. You can make a decision about FB4s versus FB3's later down the line. The FB3 will still be useful if you lean toward FB4. The APC40 is really just an extension of what you can do with a mouse for those people who like to have the tactile feel of buttons and sliders versus having to point and click. The other advantage is once you have developed muscle memory with your hands and where buttons and sliders are, it allows you to keep your eyes focused on the lasers and not a computer screen and where to position a mouse. So again, you don't necessarily need an APC40 right out of the chute in order to start learning. It's something performance based that you can grow with. I'm personally not that good with that skill. I still need to look at the keys while typing or, playing piano or something tactile like even the Z-5 analog console so, I mainly stick with a mouse and sometimes make use of my touchscreen. My APC is a dusty thing I wish I had the time to get my hands used to.

    Haze/fog etc. Don't go cheap. Also... think about it the way you might think about a printer. What is the cost of the consumables? i.e. the printer ink/haze or fog fluid? I don't give a damn about what the printer costs.... the real question is... what am I going to spend on ink every few weeks? First decide, do you want to be buying fluid for $30 a gallon every few weeks or... a gallon every few years? If the answer is every few years, then maybe the machine that's initially $300 more isn't such a bad option anymore.

    Oil based versus water based.... an oil based machine is going to give you better hang time meaning you'll run it less and while people try to say they're "messy", I run my DF-50's all the time and have never noticed any build up of oil on anything. I've also not had to add any fluid to the machines for literally a couple years. They only need to run for short periods before and during a 3 hour show. $25 per gallon. A water based Smoke Factory tour hazer on the other hand, runs constantly and, once you turn it off, atmosphere is generally gone within 10 minutes. Yes, it's economical in it's fluid use but, it's still $105 per gallon delivered to my door. Drawback of the DF-50 is it's noisier in its operation and, some venues specifically say, no oil based hazers for perceived fear of oily residue. You also can't control the volume of output - it's either on or off. The Smoke Factory I can turn down to a barely detectable level and fill a room slowly with haze with no one even noticing. So, all sorts of things to consider.

    (Just a few answered questions/opinions for you.)
    PM Sent...

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradfo69 View Post
    (Just a few answered questions/opinions for you.)
    Sweet. That’s exactly what I needed to know. I just got confused when I went to look at FB4 and there were different kinds. The only reason I was thinking Artnet is so I wouldn’t wind up being in the way of some grumpy lighting guy. But I’d rather just run all ILDA.

    As far as the APC40 I want to be connected as best as possible to what I’m doing. I came up in the electronic music scene here in Detroit and wound up being able to branch into the art scene and become a successful Cirque artist. Music is my whole life. And I need to have the best control for the Theatre shows I want to put on. I want them to be a living breathing part of the live performances. Which also means I don’t want fog machines going off all the time and distracting people.

    I emailed X-laser yesterday with an equipment list and request for a quote. Supposedly they have some big September sale going on but I can’t find any info on it and they haven’t gotten back to me. I’ve got a line on some used skywriters and 4 2watt Lightspace projectors with upgraded red diodes right now. So, hopefully they get back to me soon?

    Cause the deal is real tempting.

    I’m also waiting for Able lasers to get back to me with a price list because I have no idea if I’m getting a good deal on the 5.5W projector if I don’t know how much it was brand new. :-/

    Lightspace at least sent me an email saying they got my request but no official response from them either.

  3. #13
    Bradfo69's Avatar
    Bradfo69 is offline Pending BST Forum Purchases: $47,127,283.53
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    The September Sale is based on the amount of wattage you purchase. They add extra goodies and content in. And, if you get enough, they'll throw in basically a Mobile Beat Mirage programming projector for free.

    I also saw the FB post about the used Ligtspace projectors w/upgraded red. Think that was Hunter Owen selling off some gear - seemed like a good price. Particularly if they are the Venus II model.
    PM Sent...

  4. #14
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    Great advice above, so I'll add just one thing:

    Have you met Chad "Fog-Man" Timinskis yet? If not, look him up. (He's on Facebook, Linked-in, etc. His company is called "Fog-Man Enterprises".) He's out of Ludington (where the ferry to Manitowoc, WI docks), but he used to have a regular gig in Detroit. Hopefully he can meet up with you. He is a long-time member here on PL and has been to SELEM several times.

    The guy seriously knows his shit and will not steer you wrong. He's one of a handful of people I know who not only has an audience-scanning show variance, but an audience-scanning MANUFACTURER's variance. (Yes, that means the CDRH trusts him to build his own audience-scanning projectors! Let that fact sink in for a moment...)

    Chad is a great guy - very chill - but you can learn a lot from him. He may be able to help you out with the art gig as well, since I strongly suspect you may end up in a time-crunch if you don't already have your equipment and variance in hand.

    Adam

  5. #15
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    I can help you out with the pricing on the Able units

    I own quite a few of them, some old, some brand new, some with FB4's and EMS-8000 scanners.

    I absolutely love the workmanship AND the customer service is top notch. They want to make sure you are happy and satisfied with your purchase. ALSO they come with a 2 year warranty so you get a little piece of mind.
    "This is not "work". It's a disease, addiction and passion. Only slightly cheaper than cocaine, but similar effects."
    -dnar

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