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Thread: CYGN-B

  1. #161
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    The dogloid photo I sent previously (duplicated below because of the length of this thread) is, I believe, the "crystal dogloid". Shockingly, there are no other stills of the other dogloids in the Laserium archive - at least in the stills. There are probably many examples in the videos, but I don't have the time to watch all of them (I digitized 11+ boxes of videos!) I'll post them if I come across them.

    Important to note that the dogloids (superman, star wars, time, and crystal) are distinct from the dynamic offsets (popcorn, pong, round pong, illusion of motion, and brownian). I'm not sure what "face" is unless it was one of two images that were stored in the DOGN card to make it compatible with the much older ADIG card (Analog Digital Image Generator) which stored 2 images - the only "cartoons" that Laserium could do originally, mainly the Laserium logo. Am I remembering things correctly, Brian? It was >40 years ago!

    Ron


    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Some important new (old) resources related to the DOGN have surfaced recently, and an update is in order.

    First, the file 6b-352_DATA-FORMAT 2.pdf posted by Ron includes a catalog, or should I say a... (resisting the cheap joke) of DOGN routines to be sought, should ROM data actually become available. It is of benefit to know what one is looking for. Here are the relevant labels pulled from the file:

    SUPERMAN DOGLOIDS
    POPCORN
    ROUND PONG
    STAR WARS DOGLOIDS
    TIME DOGLOIDS
    PONG
    FACE
    ILL. OF MOT.
    CRYSTAL DOGLOIDS
    BROWNIAN

    This is the map to the Quest of the DOGLOIDS. As can be seen, four of these have recently been restored to operation on a C64, and the others should be able to be found in the ROM data. Thank you for pulling such a great find from your archives, Ron! I wonder which of these is used in the photo of dogloids you provided earlier in the thread.

    Secondly, certain party(s) have made available to me the ROM data. This makes the Quest now likely to end in successful recovery of some or all of the missing dogloids. The one less than optimal point to note is that the Crystal Odyssey ROMs may now be concluded to be unrecoverable. I have the material from several classic shows, and will begin with Starship. The results so far: data obtained from the Starship ROM disassembles into machine language. As said in the ending of that curious c64 game Time Tunnel: Gratulari.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Dogloids.jpg  


  2. #162
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    Ron: Do you know in what way the dogloids are distinct from the dynamic offsets? Different in that different mechanisms in the 351 accessed them, or different in that they were table of points vs dynamic offsets?

    Brian: I notice on Ron's previously posted photo of his CYGN-B board, that of the quad op amp chips, 6 are
    TL084CN and 2 are LM324N. Do you know if this means that LM324N could be used instead of the TL084CN in all the board locations?

  3. #163
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    SD305 "Original" ASI Dual gate MOSFET Transistor
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails SD305.JPG  


  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Ron: Do you know in what way the dogloids are distinct from the dynamic offsets? Different in that different mechanisms in the 351 accessed them, or different in that they were table of points vs dynamic offsets?

    Brian: I notice on Ron's previously posted photo of his CYGN-B board, that of the quad op amp chips, 6 are
    TL084CN and 2 are LM324N. Do you know if this means that LM324N could be used instead of the TL084CN in all the board locations?
    LM324 is a single supply operational amplifier. Tl084 is a dual supply opamp.
    Answer is maybe, sometimes, but on average your asking for trouble to use a 324 in place of the superior 08x family . TL08x needs split supplies, so without checking the rail voltages, NO.

    324's have horrible distortion in the output stage compared and horrible common mode statistics compared to the FET input TL08x series.

    Steve
    Last edited by mixedgas; 06-28-2020 at 19:46.
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  5. #165
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    That settles that. Thank you Steve.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    That settles that. Thank you Steve.
    There are a few circuits where the designers use quirks of the LM324's input and output transistors to accomplish a goal. If it is not one of those "special" applications I put Lm324's out of their misery with a hammer whenever possible.

    Steve
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  7. #167
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    Greg,

    Again, from my memory, we usually used the dogloids on their own as images. Rarely did we ever impress (add) an image to them. They tended to be smallish when projected. On the other hand, you often wanted an abstract (or cartoon) to pong (or brownian, or etc.) around the dome, hence you were dynamically "offsetting" the image(s). There were also a set of static offsets that would move the 4 beams to different fixed positions (in a line, a square, etc.).

    Ron

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Ron: Do you know in what way the dogloids are distinct from the dynamic offsets? Different in that different mechanisms in the 351 accessed them, or different in that they were table of points vs dynamic offsets?

    Brian: I notice on Ron's previously posted photo of his CYGN-B board, that of the quad op amp chips, 6 are
    TL084CN and 2 are LM324N. Do you know if this means that LM324N could be used instead of the TL084CN in all the board locations?

  8. #168
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    I see what you mean. I remember examples of both situations you mention. I'll post the documentation page (originally from your archive) for the static offsets. I have found the code that uses four bits per position to create these offsets, but they are just offsets, so I don't need to port that code. Oddly for something so minimal, looking at this sheet inspires in me a sense of nostalgia. But there they are. Oh.. that was used in this number. Oh.. that's how they did that. I remember when performing a number with the 351 running, the machine would sometimes take over positioning. (And it would look great!) I also remember, and some information in your (Ron's) recently posted data format pertains to this, how much fun it was when the machine would activate position on one joypot and rotation on the other. That was not available without the tape running.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DOGN_static_offsets.jpg  


  9. #169
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    DOGN code port update: Somehow I overlooked a fifth routine in the source listing. The routine is TPOP, or triggered popcorn, which is separate from POPCRN, which can be seen in the data format. Each DOGN routine produces four xy offsets per call, so I added more movable object blocks to show this. The routines can now be run as an interrupt (60 calls per second) or at full tilt in a loop. The photos aren't very impressive looking, but there is the motion and brownian routines operating.

    The next part involves entering the ROM data hex nybble by hex nybble, writing down the disassembled machine language, and writing it back in to Fast Assembler with branches labeled and addressing modes adjusted. Keeping in mind that this is all about finding the routine that produced that great effect documented in Ron's photo, which we think is the CRYSTAL DOGLOID routine.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DOGN_MOTION_C64.jpg  

    DOGN_BHBRN_C64.jpg  


  10. #170
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