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Thread: Back then...this is what we did...

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by laserist View Post
    Laser shows don't have to tell a story.
    Hi, Laserist,
    Thanks for chiming in. Didn't mean to sound like such a strict authoritarian and admitted that planetarium shows (the context of my comment) aren't the rule for the whole industry.
    No, I didn't mean telling a story with a moral ending and all. I meant continuously morphing an image, from one shape to another, with continuity that audiences can follow, as if it were a living shapeshifter, with style and character. That connection with an audience can't be made by punching presets. but, it doesn't need to be projected cycloids, either. My best 'China' was in a club, using mostly slowly rotating oval tunnels, ending with a horizontal flat scan around the equator of a mirror ball. It all flowed together, just like the music. Isn't that the prime objective?
    Indeed, terminology is interpreted differently, depending upon one's background. Most 'Laser shows' aren't usually the only 'act' that needs to hold the audience's attention for an hour, unless in a disco environment. Even then, perhaps that can be called 'art', or perhaps not, depending upon whether it's only 'flashing wallpaper' or a rehearsed closing finale'. Again, I'm being very general, not making rules.
    They don't have to be representational or literal. Laser shows can be constrained by the analogies we use to explain them, and sometimes the analogies are the wrong analogies. For example, lots of people have described light shows as painting with light, but what I was trying to do way back when - was to is dance with light.
    Agreed. But, I wasn't making an analogy between cycloids and music, they are one and the same phenomena and are pleasurable to experience for the same reason.
    I'm currently creating cycloids with nothing more than custom built, off the shelf, synth technology, being controlled by MIDI, another standard audio protocol. I'm recording my live MIDI controls and music tracks on a MIDI DAW.
    Yes, my personal stage show concept was also 'playing' a pair of 'lead characters' on a central screen, dancing together or alternating in counterpoint. Left/Right upstage truss projectors mainly provided beam zaps, geometric sequences, and spatial effects for hitting accents and riffs. Sometimes the beams became the main focal point. No rules engraved in stone.
    😎
    Last edited by TheHermit; 07-20-2022 at 20:47.
    What goes around, comes around;
    We project what others reflect.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by lasermaster1977 View Post
    But, it should be a musical journey, eh?
    Oh hell yes! One of my greatest complaints about stuff I've seen is when bad music just continues on in mind numbing repetition, but the laser imagery changes multiple times with no excuse at all. I'm not suggesting the laser part should match the mind numbing music - pick different music! And don't think that cycloid development means changing to a new cycloid each measure. And for God sake get get a joystick. And Greg's RGB TO RYGB colormod, there's some real potential for artistry there...
    "There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot, but there are others who, with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun." Pablo Picasso

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by lasermaster1977 View Post
    But, it should be a musical journey, eh?
    Trick question. lol
    Depends upon the definition and objective of 'it', doesn't 'it'? But, a very interesting question, none the less. We used to have a headphone section in the London Planetarium. During one show, the fuse blew on the sound system, but I didn't even know, because I was wearing my headphones and singing my heart out while doing the show.
    After replacing the fuses, the planetarium projectionist tapped me on the shoulder and said, "Your sound system just blew out, but I fixed it for you."🙄
    Anyway, I've found that music provides the emotional support for laser effects. If the music is powerful and grandiose, then so are large scanned beam effects. They just don't look the same with a piccolo.
    But, maybe that's just me.
    I see piccolos as light hues and tubas in dark purples, too
    😎
    What goes around, comes around;
    We project what others reflect.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by laserist View Post
    Oh hell yes! One of my greatest complaints about stuff I've seen is when bad music just continues on in mind numbing repetition, but the laser imagery changes multiple times with no excuse at all. I'm not suggesting the laser part should match the mind numbing music - pick different music! And don't think that cycloid development means changing to a new cycloid each measure. And for God sake get get a joystick. And Greg's RGB TO RYGB colormod, there's some real potential for artistry there...

    Amen on the quadrature (polarity) assignable joystick. That was a killer combination with RYGB scanner heads that added a whole new dimension, combine that with RYGB colormod and thats hard to beat.
    ________________________________
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHermit View Post
    I see piccolos as light hues and tubas in dark purples, too
    😎

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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHermit View Post
    Trick question. lol
    Depends upon the definition and objective of 'it', doesn't 'it'?
    But, maybe that's just me.
    I see piccolos as light hues and tubas in dark purples, too
    😎
    It=laser shows, planetarium laser shows...

    Hmm, "I see piccolos as light hues and tubas in dark purples"...there might be a song there.
    ________________________________
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by lasermaster1977 View Post
    Amen on the quadrature (polarity) assignable joystick. That was a killer combination with RYGB scanner heads that added a whole new dimension, combine that with RYGB colormod and thats hard to beat.
    Inside a dome? You betcha!
    What goes around, comes around;
    We project what others reflect.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHermit View Post
    "What can AOMs do for me that analog LD's can't already?"
    Not directed at me, but I can think of at least one application where AOMs were used - not for modulation, but for SCANNING.

    A long time ago I bought my very first Argon laser (a lowly SP-162) from none other than Gary Stadler. Turns out that one of his early laser projects was to provide the "wormhole" graphics for Star Trek, the Motion Picture from 1979. (Here's a link to the scene.) The complex lissajous pattern you see on the main viewscreen was created with an orange HeNe laser (612 nm) and a pair of AOMs to provide very narrow (less than 1 degree) but very fast optical scanning. Gary explained that the traditional galvos of the time could not possibly create such an intricate pattern, which is why they elected to use the AOMs instead.

    They were to be paid $50,000 for the effect. After they had delivered, the studio said, "Great job. But your contract does not include the rights to be credited for your work on the film. You can either have your check for $50K, or you can forgo payment and we will add you to the credits list." Understandably, they took the money...

    don't AOMs require polarized beams?
    Yup. Sure do.

    Adam

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by laserist View Post
    Oh hell yes! One of my greatest complaints about stuff I've seen is when bad music just continues on in mind numbing repetition, but the laser imagery changes multiple times with no excuse at all.
    DJ puts 'Moon River' on.
    LJ thinks (Ooh, maybe I can do something with the laser) <BAM!>
    (Nope, that doesn't work. How about this button?) <BOOM!>
    (Darn it. That's too fast) <WHAM!>

    Yes, laserist knows what I'm talking about. /smh

    On the other hand, I'm intentionally putting together some stuff, using mind numbing Tribal Trance and and repetitive Indian sitar & timbale rhythms. It provides sufficient time to get everything into sync (of course, during a public show, all the presets should already be in sync) and to develop an image, milking it for all it's worth. The repetitive music becomes the supporting foundation for the images to dance upon. Instead of the music changing, the imagery morphs and changes, taking 'center stage', so to speak. (guilty as charged. I speak in analogies)
    I usually prefer to crossmix from one image component (freq, wave select, etc) to another, instead of hitting presets with abrupt changes. After 'fading' out a channel, I select a different preset for that channel and crossfade back, freeing up another channel, and so on. If the channels' presets are all in 'tune', the image seamlessly morphs from one shape to the next, theoretically forever.

    Currently, I'm developing multidimensional arrays for different banks of presets, a bank for each show 'set'. Next set, push a button to load the next bank of appropriate presets. The Akai APC40 has an array of 6 preset buttons per channel, with 8 waveform channels, (4 QOSC channels, 2 AM, 2 colormod/blanking).

    And don't think that cycloid development means changing to a new cycloid each measure.
    <look-at-this><look-at-that>
    <this><that><this>
    (beer)
    <this><that><this>
    (bump)
    <this>(Ooh, she's healthy)<that>(Like her friend, too)<this>
    /smh
    If the laserist can't be bothered to prepare a show, then it isn't a 'show' at all, but usually garbage.
    If the laserist isn't focused on what he/she is doing, then why should the audience pay attention? They'll focus on the 'meat market' as well.
    Last edited by TheHermit; 07-21-2022 at 07:17.
    What goes around, comes around;
    We project what others reflect.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by buffo View Post
    Not directed at me, but I can think of at least one application where AOMs were used - not for modulation, but for SCANNING.
    You have a constitutional right to chime in, my friend. I'm glad you did, otherwise we would have never known. Nor did I dream this would be possible with AOMs scanning in both axis.
    Back in the day, I wanted to use RGB AOMs, with beams combined by dichroics (of course) to scan the inputs of fiber optics, connected to remote scanning heads in trusses, etc. But, never made it that far.
    I believe this method is also being used for multiplexing optical data on that there web thingy.

    Hated heaving those ion gas tubes & laser projectors on top of 10 ft scaff towers. Two of us had too much spinach on morning and nearly lost one. We were barely able to keep it from falling off the back side by hanging on from the front side for dear life. Fortunately, some of the crew jumped in to save our butts.

    A long time ago I bought my very first Argon laser (a lowly SP-162) from none other than Gary Stadler. Turns out that one of his early laser projects was to provide the "wormhole" graphics for Star Trek, the Motion Picture from 1979. (Here's a link to the scene.) The complex lissajous pattern you see on the main viewscreen was created with an orange HeNe laser (612 nm) and a pair of AOMs to provide very narrow (less than 1 degree) but very fast optical scanning. Gary explained that the traditional galvos of the time could not possibly create such an intricate pattern, which is why they elected to use the AOMs instead.
    Great back story, buffo. Thanks for sharing.

    They were to be paid $50,000 for the effect. After they had delivered, the studio said, "Great job. But your contract does not include the rights to be credited for your work on the film. You can either have your check for $50K, or you can forgo payment and we will add you to the credits list." Understandably, they took the money...
    Yup, same reason that I'm not credited on Octopussy (technically, I was subbed by HoloCo, anyway), nor Never Say Never (Spent most of the day waiting for the studios' machine shop to mfr an aluminum plate adapter from the A/C argon projector to a tripod mount. Still don't know who asked for it, nor why it was necessary. Some gaffa tape would have done the job.
    The scene was shot as a pair of rogue missiles being tracked across the Atlantic on a command control wall display, but it ended up on the cutting room floor. A spot being blurred out of focus for 1 second was all that made the cut).
    😎
    Last edited by TheHermit; 07-21-2022 at 07:59.
    What goes around, comes around;
    We project what others reflect.

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