Looking to Buy Laser System For Old School Planetarium Shows

[momoaz]

The title says it all. I have a 8 Meter Dome about 28ft projection distance from the cove. All of my friends/neighbors request laser shows after the planetarium shows and I have a few computer generated shows to give them. After 15 years of tweaking it's ready to move onto a laser system. After my research I think I have a direction. I would appreciate any advice since this will be a substantial purchase.

I would like to avoid any haze, fog, etc so viewing the beams is not important. I don't want anything to contaminate the 360 degree projection surface (or anything else).
This will be a fixed installation so set and forget. Installation safety will be followed so I might end up with a 22ft projection distance if elevating the laser.
I want to avoid another computer in the dome. I have too many already. Based on that I would like to autoshow from memory card or over ethernet. Show creation can be out of the theatre. A computer could be installed if there are advantages.

I am guessing if I use Beyond then I can save as Quickshow and deliver to the laser that way?

40 Kpps scanning is preferred.

So I have considered A Unity Elite 2 Pro FB4 or a Clubmax 2000 FB4. Both seem overkill for this application. Small theatre, short throw, is a 2 watt system overkill here?
Aside from the Laser, Beyond, and Quickshow is there anything else I should consider buying?

Much appreciated any input!

[VDX]

... have you thought about a DLP-beamer (or more of them) "simulating" a laser-show?

Much less hassles with laser safety or such

Viktor

[momoaz]

Thats what I am doing now. I have a few effects in iTunes (Music) and some screensavers that simulate laser shows. Definitely easier. How would you suggest I get something like a full show from ILDA to a video file? Other than creating in something like Adobe After Effects, I would still wish to make the show in a Beyond or old school light show design and then convert it. This would be equal amount of work but not have the true laser effect. The other issue is backlight. No beamers I have found can display a black screen image where there is no content (I have tried dozens). You are always left with a slight 16x9 image on the dome surrounding the content that is lighter than the dome surface. Very annoying. Black levels are a killer not being able to perform close to or below zero. Even with a laser beamer projector I still get images lighter than the projection screen. I am thinking I can avoid this with a real laser

[VDX]

... hmmm ... for "real black" this is true -- especially with the planetarium and fully accomodated eyes this could be a stopper

But, there are some solutions for running ILDA laser-shows with beamers too ... so maybe searching for a "real dark" capable beamer could be an option too?

Viktor

[laserist]

Actually, Zeiss demonstrated their Velvet projectors with 2.5 million to one native contrast in 2008 at the International Planetarium Association meeting in Chicago. You can see a very faint glow if you're looking into the projection lens. There's a lot of expensive patented technology involved, so they're not a good choice to emulate the low power off the shelf ILDA projectors that would be appropriate for an eight meter dome.

There's another video projector called Zorro that was originally introduced by Seos that has a million to one native contrast that the Hayden in New York and the Adler in Chicago used for a while. They were only about 800 lumen as I recall. There's one sitting on eBay for $15k.

[swamidog]

Thats what I am doing now. I have a few effects in iTunes (Music) and some screensavers that simulate laser shows. Definitely easier. How would you suggest I get something like a full show from ILDA to a video file? Other than creating in something like Adobe After Effects, I would still wish to make the show in a Beyond or old school light show design and then convert it. This would be equal amount of work but not have the true laser effect. The other issue is backlight. No beamers I have found can display a black screen image where there is no content (I have tried dozens). You are always left with a slight 16x9 image on the dome surrounding the content that is lighter than the dome surface. Very annoying. Black levels are a killer not being able to perform close to or below zero. Even with a laser beamer projector I still get images lighter than the projection screen. I am thinking I can avoid this with a real laser

You can use a Radiator to convert an ILDA signal to hdmi video. Then you just need to use a 20$ hdmi->usb dongle to grab it with your computer.

[JohnYayas]

You will not need much power. In fact, the lower the power the better in your case, since I would imagine you don't want to illuminate the dome and aren't using fog. The cool thing about dome shows is seeing that projection in a pitch black room.

And, with only around 22-28ft of distance, beam profile is not going to be all that critical. I don't know the manufacturers well enough to make a recommendation but I think you would do just fine with something like a 500mw projector. Even less would probably be fine. So, shouldn't necessarily be a big investment unless you just want to be able to use it as a high power laser outside the dome sometimes. Don't skimp on the galvos, though. Maybe even consider something with a wide angle. That's what I suggest.

[kecked]

Grab three single mode diodes rgb, two dichro to combine. Fire red straight then dichro in green then blue. Mount the dichro on mm1. You can use an mm1 with a mirror as a turning mirror for the red. Makes alighnment easier. Fire the combined into a set of galvo. I favor saturns. Wire up an ilda connector to the drivers. Add power supplies. Nice beam quality around 1/2 watt. Will display anything you throw at it. If you are careful the box could be less than foot on a side with room to spare.

add spatial filter if you want.

you can do the exact same thing with pbs cubes on sets of diodes to double the power.

use 638, 520, 465 diodes if you can find one or 445 if you must

use a nice baseplate for the optics

3k ish? Total. Plus adding variance requirements

you can buy plenty of video projector for that cost.

[carlos3621]

I have a pair of 3 watt RGB projectors that I used for programming with good beam specs.
PM me if interested, Cheap!, just cleaning out my storage of unused gear.

[buffo]

I have a 8 Meter Dome about 28ft projection distance from the cove. All of my friends/neighbors request laser shows after the planetarium shows

Is this a commercial installation, or is this a private facility?

If it's a commercial space, then CDRH rules apply, which means you need your Laser Light Show Variance and you need to purchase a projector that has been certified compliant under a Laser Product Manufacturer's Variance. (The projectors you said you were looking at are all certified.)

If it is a private facility, then you could build the projector yourself if you wanted. Also, if you have an 8 meter dome in your home, then HOLY CRAP DUDE! (Best neighbor ever!) Building your own projector can be a rewarding experience, provided you don't mind a little simple soldering and basic wiring, and you have the time to spare.

Your desire to have the shows auto-play from an on-board card is understandable, but really - having a laptop onsite to connect to the projector isn't nearly as much of a hassle as you might think. You can leave the projector and the controller in place and just plug in the laptop when you want to run shows. Having the computer present allows you to change things on the fly, and it also enables live play, which can be very rewarding.

One add-on you may wish to consider is a wide-angle lens to increase the coverage on the surface of the dome. (Pangolin's Disco-scan lens is a prime example.)

I have considered A Unity Elite 2 Pro FB4 or a Clubmax 2000 FB4.

Both are capable units, but I agree that they are probably more powerful than you need. Plus they are both designed to be beam projectors first, with graphics ability as a distinctly secondary concern.

I would suggest you also consider the X-Laser Mobile-Beat Mirage projector. It produces less power, but it uses all single-mode diodes, so the beam quality is superb.

Another option is the Kvant Clubmax 1800, if that unit is still available. It had better beam quality than the Clubmax 2000.

If you are going to use Pangolin's software, then either the FB3 or the FB4 controller would be ideal. If you want to keep your costs under control, I would purchase the FB3 controller, since it comes with the Quickshow software for free. Then, once you've spent some time playing with Quickshow, you can decide if it's worth the expense to upgrade to Beyond or not. (Beyond is like Quickshow on steroids, but Quickshow is *very* capable in it's own right.)

How would you suggest I get something like a full show from ILDA to a video file?

Beyond has a feature called "Emulaser", which allows you to use a video projector as an output device instead of a laser projector. The original concept was to use it for audience-scanning beam shows.

Audience-scanning laser light show variances are difficult to obtain, and laser projectors that are certified for audience-scanning are expensive. But there's no variance requirement for video projectors, so the idea was to split a beam show between a laser projector and a video projector. The video projector would handle the part of the show that dipped below the 3-meter line and into the audience, while the laser projector would display the rest of the show that played above the 3-meter line.

You could just as easily send the entire show output to a video projector though.

In my experience, the effect works OK. Obviously the quality of the image depends on the quality of the video projector. If you can find a video projector with a very high contrast ratio, it looks pretty good, but you will never have the deep color saturation like you'll get from a laser projector. And yeah, if you are doing graphics on a dome, you will absolutely see the "lit area" of the projector even when displaying all black, because all video projectors leak at least a little light even when displaying pure black. Here's a link to a video from a Florida Laser Enthusiast's Meeting that shows the effect - you be the judge.

Since you already have a video projector for the dome, it might be worth testing the Emulaser feature of Beyond with your existing equipment, just to see how it looks to your eye in your dome. Perhaps you can link up with someone in your area who has Beyond so you can try it.?.

Adam