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Thread: Looking to Buy Laser System For Old School Planetarium Shows

  1. #11
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    kecked: thanks for your direct answer. I have researched all the items you mention and it gives me a good idea of whats involved in building a nice rgb laser!
    Last edited by momoaz; 08-25-2021 at 17:05.

  2. #12
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    buffo: your reply took a lot of time to compose your response and I appreciate that. Its amazing (and understandable) how many suggest I run this through a beamer. While it makes the most sense and is most cost effective, whats the fun in that? I will agree even after I get this sorted and get a couple shows under my belt a video output of the shows makes the most sense. I do have extensive experience with lamp and laser video projectors and could bore you all with my last 15 years on this project.

    Without telling you all the whole story I can say I started my planetarium in 2005 with an original 1971 Spitz star projector (optical) alongside my digital projector. I felt I had to make my bones and be able to run and repair one of those exotic Rube Goldberg contraptions. Nothing produces as good os a star field and upon learning everything about it and servicing it often, I removed it in 2018. I actually cried when I removed it and started my 1K (1080) projector upgrade to my current 2k (2160). That took 4 years and endured a lot of heart ache and money and even successful 4K (4096x4096) projection but the trade offs have been made and digital is the future. Earlier posts referred to Zeiss Velvets and other projectors with good black. I can save everyone here a lot of time if they ever desire a beamer for laser projection and say as of now JVC has the best black levels and their laser engine is probably best under 40K per projector. Second is Optoma at "lower end". Sony or Canon above 40K. Any one here who read about the Zeiss I can fill them in on the whole thing if they want to message me I have been there. I can say most of that stuff is built ground up for specific purposes even on a dome by dome basis taking many thing into account such as dome size, tilt, placement of projectors, amount of projectors and masking at the most base level of the projector assemblies. I have been there and made it all myself. Sadly 80% of the Planetarium industry doesn't take people like me seriously and are not even given a reply. When replied to its seldom with respect. Luckily I found the right people and they are great.

    So I tell this because its time for me to set the way back machine again to 1978 and while I wont be using liquid cooled laser with multitrack reel to reel systems I need to make my bones here. I respect all of you who have been in this for the "cause" and hope to gain some knowledge and build a decent solution I can use at least initially.

    After your advice Adam I am confident that FB3 and Quickshow are the correct start. Why build that stuff into a Untiy Elite FB4 and be stuck with it on only one laser? Having is separate makes sense to play with different lasers. I mean how many of you only have one laser After my first laser setup I get Beyond Essentials to export to video and give me the full programming suite. I am researching the Mobile Beat Mirage (man is it small) and the Clubmax 1800. 500mw-1W makes more sense for such a small venue and excess light is always the killer in the dome. A build from scratch is not out of the future for me but I need to get my first solution as turn key as possible. Telling me the Unity and Clubmax are designed to be beam projectors first and graphics second is good info I did not understand. You saw from my post exactly where I was looking to go.

    As for safety or variances I understand the whole thing. My theatre is personal only with exception to neighbors and friends and I will never operate commercial usage. Thansk to everyone here and I look forward to talking to you all!
    Last edited by momoaz; 08-25-2021 at 17:04.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by momoaz View Post
    Its amazing (and understandable) how many suggest I run this through a beamer. While it makes the most sense and is most cost effective, whats the fun in that?
    HAHA! Well, that clinches it: You are most definitely a laserist at heart! While the average person off the street might not care about the difference in contrast and color saturation, pretty much everyone here on the forum knows that a video projector is a poor substitute for a real laser projector. Although I have to admit to being more than a little curious to see just how good that JVC projector you recommended looks in a dome. It's clear you've done your homework when it comes to video, and I'm guessing that the unit you have in your dome right now is worlds better than anything I've seen. (All of the emulaser demos I've seen were done with pro-sumer grade gear in the $1K-$3K range.)

    I do have extensive experience with lamp and laser video projectors and could bore you all with my last 15 years on this project.
    I don't think too many of us would find the story to be boring. We live for this sort of thing! Plus, the fact that you have your own, personal, planetarium dome where you can play shows whenever you want to is just amazing. Would love to see some pictures!

    I suggest you get in touch with DZ (David Zurcher) here on the forum. He's networked with several of the old-school planetarium folks, so he can put you in touch with them. (I suspect you may already know some of them from your past work on the project.) You'll also want to reach out to SpitzSTP. His username should clue you in.

    Sadly 80% of the Planetarium industry doesn't take people like me seriously and are not even given a reply. When replied to its seldom with respect.
    I have heard this from other people as well. These days everyone is all about full-dome video, and no one wants to use lasers in a dome anymore. Fortunately there are a few purists left!

    Damned shame you couldn't attend SELEM this year. We had Derrick Flickenger, Ash McFadden, Ed Keefe, and David Zurcher all together. David is the guy who took Ash McFadden's P3 analog console design and upgraded it to the Z5 analog console (with help from Ed). I'm sure you would have enjoyed chatting about the glory days of planetariums with those folks!

    I am confident that FB3 and Quickshow are the correct start.
    Completely agree. You can upgrade later, once you've gotten your feet wet. Better to get started now and see what you can do. Then you can start thinking about how far you want to go. (Although most people here will tell you that in the end, you always go for broke - literally!)

    I mean how many of you only have one laser
    Pretty much no one. He who dies with the most lasers, WINS!

    Regarding your first projector purchase: Now that it's clear that this is a completely private installation, I'd like to suggest one more option. If you want to get the absolute BEST beam quality while also getting the best scanning quality, then I would encourage you to consider building your own projector from scratch, or commissioning someone here on the forum to build it for you. The advantage to building your own projector is that you can select the absolute best components. So you can pair all single-mode diode lasers (for optimal beam quality) with very high performance scanners (Pangolin's ScannerMax Saturn scanners with the Mach-Mini DSP amps). The Saturn scanners can run 60Kpps at a very respectable scan angle, and they can even be pushed to 90Kpps, although at a greatly reduced scan angle.

    Admittedly, the Saturn scanners are pricey (a complete set costs about $2500, just for the scanning system), but nothing can top their performance. Still, if you're not quite ready to spend that much money, you might want to consider the Compact 506 scanners (also from Pangolin's ScannerMax division) as an alternative. The compact 506 scanners will still outperform pretty much anything else you'll find in a commercial product, although the ClubMax 2000 might be shipping with 506 scanners now. (Not sure if they also have the Mach-Mini DSP scanner amps though.)

    Building your own projector is clearly well within your skill set, based on your earlier comments regarding all the work you've done on your dome project. So unless you're pressed for time and really want to get something lasing in the dome right away, I think the build-your-own route might be the best option for you. For sure it will give you the best possible projector for your money.

    As for safety or variances I understand the whole thing. My theatre is personal only with exception to neighbors and friends and I will never operate commercial usage.
    Perfect. So long as there isn't any commerce involved, then the CDRH rules do not apply. Obviously you'll still want to observe some common sense safety precautions (do not look into laser with remaining eye), but you don't need to worry about purchasing a certified projector, nor do you need to comply with the 3 meter rule. This gives you a great deal of freedom, particularly if you build your own projector or have someone build it for you.

    Thanks to everyone here and I look forward to talking to you all!
    Happy to have you here on the forum, pal! Looking forward to seeing some photos of this dome of yours.

    Adam

  4. #14
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    I think it's important to understand that there has been a lot of attrition in the planetarium ranks since I did laser shows back in the 70's. I've seen planetarium directors tearing tickets - because there's nobody else to do it. Throw in the competition for resources, security availability, and all the rest - it's surprising they get the shows started on time. If you want to do laser shows in a planetarium on an ongoing basis you'll have to figure out how to not run afoul of the various stake holders at the museum and most important - how to market it, because how we used to do it no longer works in today's world.
    "There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot, but there are others who, with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun." Pablo Picasso

  5. #15
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    If your in Phoenix, contact Laser Wizardry Inc. Rent system time from Karl, and have a lot more photonic phun as he owns an abstract console and Beyond with the APC-40
    He has the Arizona license and CDRH variance, which requires considerable training and political skill / engineering skill to maintain.

    Steve
    Qui habet Christos, habet Vitam!
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  6. #16
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    You know I talked to Karl about 10 years ago and I wouldn't be surprised if he didnt take me serious. I reached out last week via Facebook didn't want to call him on a weekend. Weekends are the only time I have for this. I will try a weekday call.

    laserist: I would be very interested in your early experiences with hardware and show operation. I managed to get a story from another Laserist a few years back who told me about his experiences in his early 20s running shows. I think a forum post should arrive where people can wiki their early experiences. I built my planetarium simply because of what must have been a Laserium show in the 70s. It was OMSI in Portland and while I had been to a few daytime star projector shows with planetarium operators running a projector, and 2-3 slide projectors, the Saturday night Pink Floyd Show was the thing to behold. We drove into Portland at 11pm and watched it every weekend. But before the show the operator would run the stars for 5 minutes. I was always disappointed the stars were so short and wanted them to be longer. It was probably because of my "mental conditioning" prior to the laser shows vs the daily star shows. That was mostly the basis for the whole build. So I could control when the starts were turned off.

    I had the highest tech job in our small town fixing video games in the 80s. After Dragon's Lairs Laserdic players failed I extracted the HeNe, and power supply and made incredibly dangerous flashlights for the time......I think we need a new post for this stuff. I will get you all pictures or even access just need to find a time and way to do it so pics and info doest spread through search engines. Anyone coming through Phoenix is always welcome.

    A high end build is not out of the question. I have ordered FB3 and Quickshow, I am still leaning toward a Mobile Beat Mirage. Thanks everyone!

  7. #17
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    If you wish to go "old school" let me know. I have a few air cooled Argons that were recently removed from gentle laboratory service, PCAOMs, scan heads, very compact Image Engineering Beam tables, and circularized medical red diode systems. There are other software options besides Beyond as well, but I would prefer you have access to Pangolin. . I have more old school scanning hardware then I know what to do with right now, including remote scan heads for beams.. Karl will be in touch, (Just saw your Facebook) and has weekday time as he works for the family company and his business exclusively now. He just upgraded Laserwizardry's systems to state of the art including a few unique effects that are astounding and not available off the shelf. . I'd rather sell to a mature customer anyways, as support is easier that way, and the gear is less likely to be broken.

    Steve
    Last edited by mixedgas; 08-26-2021 at 09:40.
    Qui habet Christos, habet Vitam!
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by momoaz View Post
    snip
    laserist: I would be very interested in your early experiences with hardware and show operation. I managed to get a story from another Laserist a few years back who told me about his experiences in his early 20s running shows.
    snip
    I've been here since 2008. There's all sorts of stuff out there to be found. Some of it incurred criticism for not sharing on a silver platter everything that was Laserium, but as long as Ivan was alive that just wasn't going to happen. You might like the CYGN-A, CYGN-B, LASERIUM, and Not Technology threads. They have a bit that might be of interest. The For what it's worth... thread is instructive as far as miscommunication is concerned. ;-)
    "There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot, but there are others who, with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun." Pablo Picasso

  9. #19
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    Default Projecteur RGB 60W

    J'ai un projecteur laser de 60W à vendre pour 6000 euro si ça vous intéresse allez sur http://www.swissrocketman.fr/60w-rgb-laser%2cfr%2c3%2c359.html

    Femtoman

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by femtoman View Post
    J'ai un projecteur laser de 60W à vendre pour 6000 euro si ça vous intéresse allez sur http://www.swissrocketman.fr/60w-rgb-laser%2cfr%2c3%2c359.html

    Femtoman

    Hi,
    what are the beam specs on this?
    RGB laser projectors
    Pangolin Beyond .NET
    APC40 Midi controllers
    Pangolin FB3 controllers
    DZ splitter
    LS MegaWatt Green Machine

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