New format for laser shows - time to upgrade the show production

[james]

The accessibility of the user interface of my app has nothing to do with the utility of wav as a storage and transport file format.

I think it's fair to say that my app is better than any other at doing the things that only it can do.

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[absolom7691]

"Lasers can't be this difficult, right?"

This is an incredibly good point. It's almost exactly what the first rule of user interface design illustrates. The first rule: Minimization of Astonishment. Your user shouldn't ask, "Why the hell did they do it this way!" Now it's one thing when the answer is, "This way is more efficient and it's designed for productivity. On the other hand when the answer is, "It's free! Don't complain!" that might be bad design, or just inept design. If you find yourself responding to questions with hasty rationalizations - maybe you violated the first rule.

This a thousand times!!! I don't have a problem with difficult as long as the discoveries I make are rewarding. I should be learning what I can do with an application, increasing the difficulty with my understanding of it. Art can be hard and not all of us have it in us to be artists, as I don't but the tools should not be difficult to pick up or use. When I create something and it blows me away, I should be able to manipulate and tweak it with ease. I should be able to add nuances to it to see if I can make it more mind blowing. If I have to open up a manual, watch a youtube tutorial or worse, contact the developer, my inspiration train just ran off the tracks.

wav might not be your favorite storage and transport format. But the whole world of possibilities with regard to laser display would be just that much wider if everyone knew that all of it is within the signal culture and all that is digital is in the domain of digital audio.

But by how much? Enough for the entire industry to change a standard?

Keep in mind, I don't have any great love for ilda. I don't save any of my work to said format. I think it's a pointless argument when you're bringing up "limitations" that no one is even experiencing. Like there is a roadblock, preventing people from doing their best work when they are already doing their best work.

[james]

The fact that is has been used by several people in pursuit of a masters or PhD can be taken as a testament to its utility and also an indication that it might take some dedication and advanced thinking to use it. But it's in there. It delivers the goods.

Wav doesn't have to replace anything. It's just another way that makes a lot of sense because of its generic nature. Which is exactly why some commercial product companies don't want it.


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[absolom7691]

The fact that is has been used by several people in pursuit of a masters or PhD can be taken as a testament to its utility and also an indication that it might take some dedication and advanced thinking to use it. But it's in there. It delivers the goods.

Wav doesn't have to replace anything. It's just another way that makes a lot of sense because of its generic nature. Which is exactly why some commercial product companies don't want it.

If it doesn't have to replace anything then this whole argument is moot.

[james]

What question?
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[absolom7691]

What question?
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You added to your post before I finished. lol. I was asking if it was enough better to justify changing software to accept it and export to it.

[james]

If it doesn't have to replace anything then this whole argument is moot.

What?

It can be played directly into a generic dac in any OS!

Plus, as swamidog demonstrated, it's already being used for data transport!

How many CAD vector formats are there? How many document formats are there? How many image file formats are there, etc, etc, etc...

Thread topic: new format!

Ability to store data beyond the capability of ilda.

Plain text is a whole other universe of possibilities.

Don't take it from me. Ask other people on this forum who use these "new" formats.

Like I said before, the generic nature (and the ability to capture any proprietary dac output) is exactly why some commercial companies will not adopt it as a standard.

Does that answer your question?

If ilda is anything, it is an organization of people who want to make money from laser display. That's not a judgment. It's a reality. It's not in their interests to promote formats or methods that are totally open to DIY laser display, thus making themselves almost irrelevant.
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[james]

I really appreciate the kind words especially in contrast to some other things that have appeared on this forum.

So are we good now? Maybe I'm not as out there in left field as you thought.

Or at least that's not such a bad thing.

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[swamidog]

That is completely untrue. ILDA is comprised of many different people ranging from casual hobbyists to individual industry professionals to large companies.

ILDA absolutely promotes open standard, formats that can be used by anyone, including hobbyists. The ILDA file format, protocols such as IDN, and even the DB25 ILDA standard.

You know this. I don’t know why you would claim anything different.

There are many many folks in ILDA, and even some on the board, who started as hobbyists on Photonlexicon.

It is an organization of people who want to advance the art and technology of the laser show industry.

You are welcome to join ILDA and suggest ways to improve art and industry of laser displays. I have said this many times.

If ilda is anything, it is an organization of people who want to make money from laser display. That's not a judgment. It's a reality. It's not in their interests to promote formats or methods that are totally open to DIY laser display, thus making themselves almost irrelevant.
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[dchammonds]

Now, I know, the argument here is ild vs wav so let me get back to that.

It was never 'ild vs wav' for me- as I stated earlier, my understanding of ILDA came much after. Back in 05 there were few if any
cheap laser DAC options, but I knew how to hack an audio card with extra circuitry to produce bipolar DC signals. I did not have the
knowledge to address an audio card directly in realtime, but I did know how to hack the beans out of a wave file without wrecking it.
James had knowledge of several vector formats and developed techniques to optimize the material to look good on modest scanners and
I had some tricks for generating 3D 24 bit color abstracts along with stereo sound to go with it.


James and I had a cheap and dirty way to get a laser projector going, as well as interoperability between our apps via an agreed on
formatted wave. We totally bypassed any established laser practice, but it was strictly limited to pre-processing, and after-the-fact
playback through a wave player.


For me, things changed when drlava introduced EzAudDAC. Serveurperso on PL posted a simple beam app written in VB6 complete with
sourcecode:

https://www.photonlexicon.com/forums...-dll-VB6-issue

That's when I learned how to write to a DAC in realtime and I wrote SpiroDAC, a realtime function generator that supports several
cheap DACs using EasyLase/EzAudDAC function calls. Only after this experience, I decided it was time to get off of Gilligan's Island
and learn ILDA so I wouldn't be cut off from the rest of the world. I still see value in the concept of 'laser formatted' wave for
canned and ready-to-go content for playback that includes the ability to decompile into the original source material.

It's not wav that you have an issue with. It's LaserBoy wav.

The question is, what exactly is a 'laser formatted' wave, and who is Pontificus Maximus complete with the binding and loosing clause
in charge of its specifications? James, even your beloved C/C++ has some oversight by a governing body of more than one individual-
ANSI, I think.


Recently, I added support for the Helios DAC in SpiroDAC and LWave and I plan to offer support for EtherDream if I can ever get
ahold of j4cbo...