New format for laser shows - time to upgrade the show production

[absolom7691]

...and here we are, back to 2010 where threads are derailed by discussions of how the ilda file format sucks and waves are amazing. James, it's never going to happen. You can argue all you want. Few people outside of hobbiests and tinkerers are going to hack a file format just because it can be used for something like laser projection. You rallied way back then and practically no one jumped on-board. It's 12 years later and the world has moved on happily while still not using waves for laser projection. It's 12 years later and you're still beating that dead horse. I thought this argument died 12 years ago when everyone got sick of you completely ignoring their views because you were "right" and they were "wrong".

So, let's sum up:
Can .wav files used for laser projection? Yes.
Are laserists using waves to project laser content? Practically none. I'd say less than 0.5% (being generous here.)
Are waves ever going to be adopted by the laser community? No. For the millionth time, no. And again, no. No matter how badly you want people to.

Why is this still being argued??? (please don't answer that question. Everyone knows it's rhetorical).

[james]

The other 95.5% just blast beams into the air with no motivation to do anything more than what their commercial product laser control system puts within their immediate reach like a Fischer Price baby toy.

There are other people in the world who are using laser projectors to make art besides the people on this forum.

I offer people solutions, connections between different systems and formats. What do you do?

If you read the opening post before it was edited and then the posts that directly followed it, you might know this thread started out off-the-rails.

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[dchammonds]

...and here we are, back to 2010 where threads are derailed by discussions of how the ilda file format sucks and waves are amazing. James, it's never going to happen.

Oh my, where did all that time go?

Meanwhile, I'll continue to wait breathlessly for Colortran to release info on the 'New format for laser shows' that will leave us all in the laser community gyrating in our seats.

[james]

People who use software applications have no choice but to use whatever file formats those applications understand.

People who create software applications have the power to define and deploy file formats.

[swamidog]

People who use software applications have no choice but to use whatever file formats those applications understand.

People who create software applications have the power to define and deploy file formats.

[james]

Or maybe a bicycle!

Where do you think software and file formats come from?

Handed down by the gods perhaps?

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[absolom7691]

The other 95.5% just blast beams into the air with no motivation to do anything more than what their commercial product laser control system puts within their immediate reach like a Fischer Price baby toy.

I agree and never disputed the fact that very untalented people have access to a lot of power with no clue how to use it. There are a lot of trogs out there. Don't make the mistake of thinking that just because your "solution" is outside the box and esoteric, using it makes one an artist. There are a lot of professionals and artists alike that also use the same commercial tools. Anyone can pick up LSX and use it to project clipart, or they can get down and dirty with it, like Chris does, scripting math formulas to make some amazing art. Easy != bad artist. A bad artist will always be bad, regardless of the tools. You remind me of the coffee snob that thinks they're cultured just because they go through 15 steps to make a cup of joe.

There are other people in the world who are using laser projectors to make art besides the people on this forum.

Of course, and most are probably not using waves. Some, maybe...

I offer people solutions, connections between different systems and formats.

You are under the illusion that you offer. In my experience here, you foist your ideals on people, whether they asked for it or not. You steer them away from a widely used format that almost any software, including your own, will read. You push them into this void where very few people dwell and as a result, they have no choice but to come to you for help because you're one the few that uses and understands it. For someone just starting out with lasers, I'm sorry but that would make them lose interest fast. Throwing someone in the water is not a good way to teach someone to swim.

What do you do?

I offer advice if asked. I offer my experience as a noob. I advise on which solutions I found easier to get into the hobby so that one doesn't lose interest. I tell them which tool I found easier to learn so they can find out if there is an artist within them or if they're just a button pusher. Once they have a better understanding of the medium, they can then choose which tools they want to use.

[JohnYayas]

Scroll back in this thread and watch the Vector Hack Festival video, the whole thing.

Like I said... that's because it's a bicycle.

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The only reason wav files are used in the video is that they allow recording and playback of multichannel data and that's desired because they content is created with a variety of non-standard technology. However, the generation of the content has nothing to do with WAV files. If you give anyone a WAV file recording of one of those presentations and then ask them to do something with it, they can't. It's about as useful as giving someone a Britney Spears CD and asking them to pull it up in their software and then replace the drums with other sounds.

I'd bet my bottom dollar that none of the wav files used there have any useful information to identify frame sequences, the meaning of tracks, etc.

You haven't presented anything that compels anyone to think WAV files are useful. You argument is that you think WAV files are better because you think WAV files are better. You complaint against ILDA is still that you are butt hurt that they didn't create the format the way you wanted them to because it requires you to do a little bit of advanced parsing. That's just an implementation issue. The informational content of the ILDA files remains exactly the same as what you were happy with.

[james]

Once again, both of you have completely failed to grasp the the meaning of my statements and you continue to ignore the statements I've already made that were intended to enlighten you.

In this context, much of what you wrote is self-contradictory.

If you are satisfied with just using whatever the "industry" provides you to make "art" that's fine for you.

I'm creating new possibilities and expanding capabilities for myself and everyone else who wants it.

I don't force anyone to do anything. If my application is anything, it is a bridge between "industry standards" and all kinds of other applications that are completely outside of the industry.

Cutting edge art isn't created by thousands of people using the same technology. That's not art. That's utility. Art is created by individuals doing something different.

Both of the other software developers (and many others including both hosts Derek Holzer and Ivan Klif) in that panel discussion have created applications that can use wav as a data source in their modular systems. They just didn't demonstrate that in their presentation. Since that panel discussion, there is already a collaboration happening to advance their understanding and utilization of both wav and ilda files.

The only thing that can currently be stored in an ilda file that can't be stored in a wav is a palette. And the ilda section 2 palette is pretty much never used and often not implemented in applications that read ilda! I was just thinking about that last night and I plan to add that to my wav extensions too.

For those people who do use my application to make wav, there are many many more who use it to convert from wav, txt, or dxf to ILDA.

I'm not at all "butt hurt" about the way ILDA busted their own file format. It was busted from the very first version before I ever heard of it. If anything, my application has become the reference standard working implementation of the ILDA file format. Yes. That's right. My application is used by all kinds of developers to prove that their own implementation of ilda is correct and I get questions about it regularly. Isn't that right Gary? I remember your first posts about Spaghetti that featured screen shots of your app with my frame set loaded.

Probably the most common comment about my application is that it has a steep learning curve. That means that you can't make much use of it at all until you LEARN; not just about how to use the application but also about everything that it does and why you would want to do that. That knowledge translates to the way ilda files work in other systems. But neither of you would ever know that because you have a huge blind spot in your imagination also known as an attitude problem.

@absolom7691
Your signature "Those who fail to grasp art are the ones who criticize it." is fucking hilarious.

Why do you keep minimizing the scope of the technology that might be used in this art form? I'm not taking anything away from anyone. I'm giving everyone WAY more options to use with everything they already have.

James.




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[swamidog]

everything you just said is incorrect and is based on imagination and ego.

Once again, both of you have completely failed to grasp the the meaning of my statements and you continue to ignore the statements I've already made that were intended to enlighten you.

In this context, much of what you wrote is self-contradictory.

If you are satisfied with just using whatever the "industry" provides you to make "art" that's fine for you.

I'm creating new possibilities and expanding capabilities for myself and everyone else who wants it.

I don't force anyone to do anything. If my application is anything, it is a bridge between "industry standards" and all kinds of other applications that are completely outside of the industry.

Cutting edge art isn't created by thousands of people using the same technology. That's not art. That's utility. Art is created by individuals doing something different.

Both of the other software developers (and many others including both hosts Derek Holzer and Ivan Klif) in that panel discussion have created applications that can use wav as a data source in their modular systems. They just didn't demonstrate that in their presentation. Since that panel discussion, there is already a collaboration happening to advance their understanding and utilization of both wav and ilda files.

The only thing that can currently be stored in an ilda file that can't be stored in a wav is a palette. And the ilda section 2 palette is pretty much never used and often not implemented in applications that read ilda! I was just thinking about that last night and I plan to add that to my wav extensions too.

For those people who do use my application to make wav, there are many many more who use it to convert from wav, txt, or dxf to ILDA.

I'm not at all "butt hurt" about the way ILDA busted their own file format. It was busted from the very first version before I ever heard of it. If anything, my application has become the reference standard working implementation of the ILDA file format. Yes. That's right. My application is used by all kinds of developers to prove that their own implementation of ilda is correct and I get questions about it regularly. Isn't that right Gary? I remember your first posts about Spaghetti that featured screen shots of your app with my frame set loaded.

Probably the most common comment about my application is that it has a steep learning curve. That means that you can't make much use of it at all until you LEARN; not just about how to use the application but also about everything that it does and why you would want to do that. That knowledge translates to the way ilda files work in other systems. But neither of you would ever know that because you have a huge blind spot in your imagination also known as an attitude problem.

@absolom7691
Your signature "Those who fail to grasp art are the ones who criticize it." is fucking hilarious.

Why do you keep minimizing the scope of the technology that might be used in this art form? I'm not taking anything away from anyone. I'm giving everyone WAY more options to use with everything they already have.

James.




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