LDS and LDB to ILDA convert

[Dr Laser]

Is there a program to convert LDS LDA or LDB to ILDA?

[buffo]

LDS is Pangolin's secure file format. If you have Pangolin and have the save as ILDA option and you created the LDS file, then you can save it as ILDA. Otherwise, nothing can touch it. (That's why it's called "secure".)

LDB is readable by a number of software packages, including Anarchy and the Alphalite software. However, as Bill Benner mentioned in an earlier post, the LDB file format is also proprietary. (It's from the older Pangolin QM-32 systems.) As such it's never been released publically, so there are undocumented features in the format. While Anarchy may be able to open some LDB files, it's possible that it will choke on other files.

Not sure about LDA files, but Anarchy may be able to read them as well... You'll have to experiment.

Adam

[Pangolin]

Everything that Buffo wrote above was correct, except that in addition, the LDA format is "Lasershow Designer for Amiga", which is another proprietary Pangolin format from circa 1986.

HOWEVER!!! One thing that Buffo did not mention is the "piracy" aspects of this discussion. All Pangolin systems which use LDS, LDA and LDB files can also save those files to ILDA format. Therefore anyone with a legitimate need to convert these to ILDA can already do so. BUT I would argue that anyone without a Pangolin system does not have the legitimate need (or indeed perhaps the rights) to convert them. In fact, our license agreement has specific wording about such conversions and the use of converted content -- especially that content that we provide with the software.

If you look closely and read other posts in this forum and within the ILDA forums as well, you will see that art-ware suppliers really are becoming quite perturbed about piracy these days, to the point of taking infringers to court (and most importantly, WINNING)!!! I therefore strongly suggest that people only use that art-ware for which they have legitimate usage rights. After all, the last thing this world needs is more rich lawyers .

Best regards,

William Benner

[Dr Laser]

I just came across web sites like laserframes and animatedlines who only sell frames as LDS and not Ilda. There is no mention of Pangolin Use ONLY on their sites. Doesn't it look like they must put a description. Regular people without deep knowledge of Pangolin copyrights would be confused. You're talking about lagitimate needs to convert....Yes I just officially bought a frame set (for example) and why can't I convert.?

BTW I do all my shows myself: Drawing tracing and programming. Yes it's for Lasegraph DSP. But I never heard anything about for someone not be able to convert my own frames into something they want. Just for me it looks like Pangolin owns the right to anything created on their system...automatically..only because of file format.

Take Care.

[Aidan]

Just flipping the coin here, these frames / shows some of us happen to stumble upon....

What if I was to take some show or something somebody else made and just used it with my laser that I mess about with at home.....

I’m sure it wouldn’t be “legal” so to speak, but does it really matter?

I would only be messing with it in my own property, not making money from it etc....

This hobby gets us all haemorrhaging money as it is.

So dose it really matter?

I can understand going after people using your “stuff” professionally, but isn’t it a bit of a grey area that it’s “ok” for hobbyists to just mess around with stuff at home?

[carmangary]

I think you know the answer. It isn't right but no one is going to come after you for playing around in your garage with their ILDA files. They won't even know. It's the exact same deal as copying music, software, or movies.

[buffo]

Aidan;

I don't know about the copyright laws in the UK, but over here they're pretty strict. Even if you're not using the files in a commercial endevour, infringement is still infringement. All you have to do is look at the lawsuits the RIAA has filed against people using internet file sharing software... No one was selling anything, but they went after them anyway. (Sigh - never let it be said that the US doesn't have enough rich lawyers.)

In principle, I understand where you're coming from. However, at least in this country, what you are proposing is technically illegal. That's not to say that it doesn't happen, but if you are the one that gets caught - well, I think it's going to matter quite a bit.

Now, you might ask, "How would anyone get caught if all they ever do is play with their laser at home?" And you're right, you probably never would get in trouble. Unless later on you started doing shows commerically... Or someone that was already in the business paid a visit to your home and recognized some of the artwork... Or you uploaded it to an Internet website and someone in the industry recognized the artwork...

Ok - maybe that's going a bit too far. After all, Bill Benner has already remarked that he's seen files that are included in other laser show packages that are infringing on Pangolin artwork, yet no one here is being dragged into court. I think that there might be some leniency and / or forgiveness extended to a hobbyist. But the law is clearly on the side of the copyright owner.

The really wierd part is that it doesn't have to be this way at all. I remember back when the Amiga computer was popular, there was a whole community of people that would create new and wonderful things to showcase the power of the computer. Demos, music mods, looping audio sequences, raytraced animations, even some games. Most of this art was released into the public domain, and the entire community benefitted from it. I *wish* there was more of that in the laser show community, but so far it seems that most people that develop show content either hoard it for themselves or try to make a living by selling it.

To me, art is something you do for the fun of it, and for the good of everyone else. While I'm not against artists trying to make a living, I also recognize that you can still create beautiful art *without* making it your primary source of income. I wish more people would take that route. The community at large would be better off...

I know that I'm trying to produce original stuff - but 1) I'm not very good at drawing, and 2) I don't have as much time as I'd like to devote to it. Still, I'm trying, and I ALWAYS release anything I do into the public domain. (I've still got a few things floating around on Aminet, in fact!) I hope more people will do this as well; we've got enough talent here on PhotonLexicon that we should be able to crank out some really cool shows....

Ok - I'm off my soapbox now.

Adam

[allthatwhichis]

I'm not sure how on topic this is. Can Pangolin open the shows that came with "LDS", Laser Design Studio?

[Aidan]

Gary : Yeah, just wondered about other people’s "views".

Adam : We don’t have any real high profile "groups" here like the RIAA / MPAA etc but the same kind of laws apply as far as I’m aware.

Anyway, I’ll say no more here!

I’m hijacking - Sorry!

[buffo]

I'm not sure how on topic this is. Can Pangolin open the shows that came with "LDS", Laser Design Studio?

No, it can't.

Laser Design Studio uses the same show file and frame file formats that Mamba Black does (I forget the exact file extensions at the moment). Anyway, they're not compatible with Pangolin's .sho and .lds file formats.

Of course, if you save as ILDA then anything can open it.

Adam