Direct from Guangzhou: 2x 25W RGB IP65, DDP, $3.3k. Talk me out of it?

[Ferrous256]

Looking at buying two IP65 25W RGB units from a Guangzhou supplier, $3,308, to be installed on a mobile outdoor stage for public events.

AI tells me I should ask for variance and acession numbers
I know they won't have variances, but is it worth trying to get a CDRH accession number?

Does this supplier seem shady?
Guangzhou Xinguangda Photoelectric Technology Co., Ltd.
Supplier email goes to a Chinese news website

Is undervalued clearance the norm on these?
Alibaba says Incoterms and duties: DDP


DDP text popup says: "You can receive the goods at the destination place, your supplier will do the import customs clearance at the destination port and also afford all the fees including import duty."

The freight quote is $204.81 and AI says this implies about $9 of duty on a $1,280 unit.


Safe to buy pangolin hardware from China?

I'm looking at buying cheap Chinese lasers because they're cheap. I'm wondering what your guys' thoughts are

[swamidog]

you are looking at a mound of paperwork to make them legal... assuming they can be made legal.

2x25W projectors is a lot of power, especially if you have limited laser experience and safety training. i would not suggest going this route.

Looking at buying two IP65 25W RGB units from a Guangzhou supplier, $3,308, to be installed on a mobile outdoor stage for public events.

AI tells me I should ask for variance and acession numbers
I know they won't have variances, but is it worth trying to get a CDRH accession number?

Does this supplier seem shady?
Guangzhou Xinguangda Photoelectric Technology Co., Ltd.
Supplier email goes to a Chinese news website

Is undervalued clearance the norm on these?
Alibaba says Incoterms and duties: DDP


DDP text popup says: "You can receive the goods at the destination place, your supplier will do the import customs clearance at the destination port and also afford all the fees including import duty."

The freight quote is $204.81 and AI says this implies about $9 of duty on a $1,280 unit.


Safe to buy pangolin hardware from China?

I'm looking at buying cheap Chinese lasers because they're cheap. I'm wondering what your guys' thoughts are

[mixedgas]

Because in buys of 4 or more one of the better vendors is shipping 35 watts for that price. With good beam quality...

Steve

- - - Updated - - -

Because in buys of 4 or more one of the better vendors is shipping 35 watts for that price. With good beam quality...

Steve

[upton]

[QUOTE=Ferrous256;367249]我打算从广州一家供应商那里购买两台IP65防护等级、25W的RGB灯，价格为3308美元，用于安装在 公共活动的移动户外舞台上。

人工智能建议我应该索要差异编号和CDRH认证编号。
我知道他们不会有差异编号，但尝试获取CDRH认证编号值得吗？

这家供应商看起来靠谱吗？
广州新光达光电科技有限公司。
供应商的邮件被转发到一家中国新闻网站。

低价清关是这类产品的通行证吗？
阿里巴巴显示其国际贸易术语和关税为DDP（完税后交货）。DDP


弹出的文本框显示：“您可以在目的地收货，您的供应商将在目的港办理进口清关手续，并承担包括进口关税在内 的所有费用。”

运费报价为204.81美元，人工智能说这意味着一台价值1280美元的灯需要缴纳约9美元的 关税。


从中国购买Pangolin Hardware的产品安全吗？

我打算买些便宜的中国产激光器，因为它们价格便宜。想听听大家的意见。

[buffo]

AI tells me I should ask for variance and acession numbersI know they won't have variances, but is it worth trying to get a CDRH accession number?

The AI is partially correct. First, *you* need a laser light show variance from the CDRH before you can perform laser light shows for the public. Technically, you must have your variance before you purchase a certified laser projector, although some manufacturers will assist you in obtaining your variance as part of your purchase, assuming you don't already have your variance.

Second, the company that sells you the laser projector must also have a laser product manufacturer's variance from the CDRH, and they must certify that the projector they're selling you is compliant with the US regulations for laser projectors. This goes beyond just adding the proper labels, E-stop systems, and so fourth. The company must also develop a robust testing procedure, a quality control plan, and a record-keeping system that will allow them to trace every projector they sell. Then they have to file a laser product report (which often runs to 150 pages or more) with the CDRH that explains in detail how they will meet every one of the requirements when they actually start manufacturing the projectors. Only once this is all done can they legally begin selling projectors in the USA.

So, what the AI should have told you is to ask if the manufacturer has certified the product as compliant under their own laser product manufacturer's variance, and then assuming that they *are* selling legal, US-certified projectors, ask if they will assist you in filing for your laser light show variance so you can use these projectors in public.

The bit about an accession number is a red herring. An accession number is simply a number in the CDRH's document management system. Every time you send something to the CDRH, you'll get a letter back from them saying, in essence, "We've received your letter, here's the accession number we've applied to it - please use this number when referring to this document in the future."

But an accession number is not the same thing as a variance. It's simply a number that identifies one document (out of millions) in their system. The joke is that you can send the CDRH a postcard while you're on vacation at the Grand Canyon, and the CDRH will respond with an accession number.Now, if you apply for your laser light show variance, you will get an accession number back, but this is NOT your variance number.

If you are granted a variance, you'll get a variance number, along with a letter that explains what you can and can not do with your projectors. Thus, asking for an accession number is pointless without context.

Does this supplier seem shady?Guangzhou Xinguangda Photoelectric Technology Co., Ltd.

I don't know if they're shady, but I'll bet almost anything that, like many Chinese suppliers, they are NOT selling legal US-Certified laser projectors. Instead, they're relying on the fact that millions of packages get delivered to the USA from China every single day, and thus the chances of their particular shipment being seized by US customs (because the laser projectors are non-compliant) are fairly low.

But make no mistake - if the customs office notices, they will absolutely seize the shipment, at which point you get a letter saying that you either provide documentation proving you have the right to import non-compliant equipment (which requires you to have your laser product manufacturer's variance and file FDA form 741), or they will send the shipment back to China at your expense. This has happened to members here on the forum in the past, although it's been a few years since the last time I read about one...

Is undervalued clearance the norm on these?Alibaba says Incoterms and duties: DDP

Many Chinese suppliers will offer discounts on older models to clear out inventory when they have a newer design ready to go.

As for the "terms and duties" clause, that includes any of the new tariffs levied against Chinese goods (which seem to change at random, thanks to our current administration), but the hidden implication is that you are also on the hook if the shipment gets seized by customs, since *you* are the importing agent.

"You can receive the goods at the destination place, your supplier will do the import customs clearance at the destination port and also afford all the fees including import duty."

Unless they're providing you with all the paperwork in advance, and unless you're well-versed in the current tariff situation so you can check it for accuracy, I'd take that entire claim with a HUGE grain of salt. If you're worried about the projectors being seized by customs, then at a minimum, I'd ask them if the lasers are certified as US-compliant, and if they say yes, ask them for the name of the company that certified them and the laser product manufacturer's variance number that they were certified under.

Safe to buy pangolin hardware from China?

Yes and no. Yes, from reputable and established companies that have a long-standing relationship with Pangolin. Goldenstar Laser and OptLaser come to mind. (I've purchased FB3 and FB4 controllers from these companies in the past, and they were genuine Pangolin products.) But China is also full of counterfeit products, including counterfeit Pangolin hardware, so be very cautious. If you see an FB3 for sale for $375, it's probably legitimate. If you see one for $75, it's counterfeit.

I'm looking at buying cheap Chinese lasers because they're cheap. I'm wondering what your guys' thoughts are

If you are buying them for your own use, and you're willing to take the chance that they could be seized by US customs (which, admittedly, is a low risk), then you do you. Yeah, it's illegal to import them, but so long as you don't re-sell them or use them in public, the only person you're potentially harming is yourself.

However, if you're planning to use them in public, you're opening yourself up to a HUGE legal liability. The projectors are not compliant, and you don't have your variance. If you ever get inspected, you're busted. And heaven help you if someone ever claims an injury, because you'll have no legal leg to stand on. Using illegally-imported, non-compliant projectors without a variance is the very definition of gross negligence, and the plaintiff's lawyer is going to eat that up.

Note that I said "claims an injury". The injury might not even be real, or if it is real, it might not have been caused by your projectors, but as soon as the court finds out you're not legal, it's all over. Food for thought...

Adam