Legal situation?

[andy_con]

wow this is strange.

i was just searching the web for legal/law info regarding doing shows, then saw this thread

what documents should i be looking at for doing indoor shows within the UK???

[JimBo]

Careful. It's a difficult situation, there are laws, and the guides just make it harder to know what's a strict law.

What law?

Show Steve's advice to that copper when he returns

Who is Steve and what is his advice?
I'm sure everybody would like to know, that way we can steer clear of breaking laws etc..

Jim

[Lampy]

This was also posted on alt.lasers and Steve Roberts gave some advice over there. I thinks its one of those situations where its not illegal to point a laser at someone per-se but it is illegal to blind people or put them in danger so you have to asses the risks properly.

[The_Doctor]

What law?

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP736.PDF

2.2 Ideally, pre-event analysis and discussion with aviation authorities should safely de-conflict
flying and light display activities. Failure to take suitable or adequate measures
to prevent a hazard to aircraft may result in prosecution under the Air Navigation Order
2000 that refers to endangering the safety of an aircraft, or under Article 110 of the
same Order that refers to dangerous lights.

It's an easy read too, read it all. It's not that scary, and certainly not as scary as the consequences of ignoring it. Later in that same file there's the Chilton phone number that Steve mentioned more fully in alt.lasers.

I'm no expert on this, I just have a good sense of what risks there are, and I'm reading this stuff as I come across it, same as anyone should when thinking of pointing a laser in the sky for any purpose, even for just a few minutes.


Steve's specific advice, in full:

You will soon perhaps be visited by whatever the current name of
Health and Safety Executive is.
Not to mention Civil Aviation Authority. UK regs are very fuzzy and
vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but keep it terminated or your
CAA, like our FAA, can have a blast ruining your life. I dont know
your diameter and divergence, but at 250 mW, your NOHD, nominal ocular
hazard distance, may be several kilometers.

start here, ring up one John O'Hagan, he can tell you the rules.
If he's still there, tell him Steve Roberts from the states says
hello.
If hes not there, ask for whomever replaced him. Last time I talked to
him, his job was to advise, NOT ENFORCE,
so he wont be paying you a visit if you call. Please tell us what
you find out.

Health Protection Agency
Centre for Radiation, Chemical and Environmental Hazards
Chilton
Didcot
Oxon OX11 0RQ

Tel 01235 831600
Fax 01235 833891

EDIT:
'Terminated' means blocked. If possible, make sure all beams, internal OR external, cannot go beyond some opaque barrier. That's by far the easiest way to demonstrate responsible care, as it is equally apparent to a genius or a dunce that the beam isn't going anywhere it shouldn't.

[JimBo]

I showed the officer that the beam was fixed and aimed above roof level but below aeroplane level

So it is of no concern of the CAA. Rule 5 of the Rules of the Air Regulations 1996 dictate how low an aircraft can fly.
If the beam is likely to go above 500ft (in the open) or 1500ft in built up areas then it is possible that the CAA will be more than interested.

Jim

[The_Doctor]

So it is of no concern of the CAA. Rule 5 of the Rules of the Air Regulations 1996 dictate how low an aircraft can fly.
If the beam is likely to go above 500ft (in the open) or 1500ft in built up areas then it is possible that the CAA will be more than interested.

Jim

Doesn't work like that. The earth surface curves down and away with distance. What's too low for an aircraft in the mile or two you can easily see won't be too low for an aircraft several miles downrange, and a 250 mW laser is a serious hazard at ranges beyond that. It can make a pilot fail to see his instruments properly for several minutes after even the shortest direct hit. The possible consequences of that are scary beyond mention. I will mention it though. Crashes, knocks on the door by people establishing to their satisfaction, not yours, that you're not a terrorist threat... Even a simple civil lawsuit can take away most of your freedom for life, purely on a financial basis. If you think that's stupid paranoia, put away the laser toys now. Anyone who takes risks should take their own risks, not expect others to take risks for them. So be cautious, think the unthinkable so you know what to do to stop it ever happening, and get informed.

[Banthai]

sorry 450nm .....

But you are on really dodgy ground here, if you contact John O'Hagan, the first thing he will ask is have you done a risk assesment ? ....

as far as regulations go in the Uk ... the first step to using lasers in a public place ( and outside is a public place ) is to do a risk assesment and present it to your local athority to aprove, before you even set the laser up.

now im guessing what you say you are doing is shining it in the street above eye level and not in the sky .... but what you must prove is that some stupid fuck cant stand on a step ladder and blind himself, or if a double decker bus drive pass it will shine inside or someone stands on a bus shelter or any other stupid way that someone could look in the beam what if a stiltwalker should come down your road .... also you will have to have Signs up at the end of the street that warn everyone entering the street that there is laser in operation ( and you will need to get council permision to erect the signs ) and you will need to supervise the laser at all times ..... and a million other reasons as well ...

sorry buddy but its asking for problems with the authorities ..... and in this business you need to work with them not against them

all the best ... Karl

[JimBo]

Doesn't work like that. The earth surface curves down and away with distance.

Very good point.

Jim

[allthatwhichis]

What is the display look like?

[greenalien]

As far as the CAA regs are concerned, the main things they need to know are a) where the laser is situated, and b) when it will be on. They then promulgate that information to all pilots via a system called 'NOTAMS' (notices to airmen). That way, any pilot in your area would be made aware of the possible danger. They generally need a couple of weeks advance notice. The risk of temporarily blinding a pilot with your laser is real and should not be ignored - it takes several minutes to develop full night vision and just a brief flash from a laser of that power, even several miles away, can be sufficient to destroy that night vision.

My advice would be that it's OK to use this type of laser outside in controlled conditions where you can see the end of the beam is safely terminated but just shining it outwards without knowing where the beam ends should be regarded as irresponsible, to say the least.

At present, lasers aren't controlled by any specific legislation other than the Health and Safety at Work regs and the HSE code of conduct, but the more the attention of 'the authorities' gets drawn towards them, the more likely it is that restrictive laws will follow, so it's generally better to keep a low profile!