Now I've got something to show!

[JeroenVDV]

Just because your country doesn't regulate audience scanning does not meen it's safe.

I absolutelly agree to that. But, just because your country DOES regulate audience scanning doesn't mean it's UNsafe.

As an example in Germany there are no speed limits on over half of the Autobahns, does that meen it's safe to drive a BMW at 250MPH?. There are times when it is safe, but on those occassions there are many things that are done to reduce the risk of injury.

Here in the Netherlands there are more and more highways where speed is restricted to 80KM/H instead of the "normal" 120KM/H for highways here. As a result of that more and more young drivers just don't learn to drive normal at 120KM/H anymore and that creates dangerous situations. My experience is that people in Germany are far better drivers than in the Netherlands.

Very strict and specialized laws are not always a positive thing..

[JimBo]

In the UK it isn't illegal to do audience scanning, there are guidelines though.
You cannot be prosecuted for audience scanning, but if there is an accident and you haven't taken all reasonable precautions then you will be liable for damages.
Ignorance is bliss, but that doesn't make things safe.
On the speed limit side of things, it is a FACT that accidents at higher speeds cause more fatalities.
I love to drive fast, I've had a car which I regularly drove well over the the speed limits (drove at 140 MPH) just for the thrill. I know it was dangerous and foolish.
Maybe you need a reality check that will show you that scanning audiences with high power lasers is foolish, I have no doubt that you have tried burning plastic or paper with your laser to see if it can, knowing that what makes you think it will not harm people?

I'm not trying to turn this thread into a "let's gang up on Jeroen" thread, just pointing out some things are foolish.

Jim

[JeroenVDV]

You cannot be prosecuted for audience scanning, but if there is an accident and you haven't taken all reasonable precautions then you will be liable for damages.

I think you'll always be prosecuted, even if you've taken all reasonable precautions.. It was your laser that harmed someone.

Maybe you need a reality check that will show you that scanning audiences with high power lasers is foolish, I have no doubt that you have tried burning plastic or paper with your laser to see if it can, knowing that what makes you think it will not harm people?

When I output one single beam using Pangolin (so NOT with scanners powered off!) I'm not able to burn or melt paper or plastic even when it's 10cm-distance in front of the laserprojector aperture. When I output a circle using my FB3 without blanking, I even don't feel any heat when I have my hand in the beam from a distance of 1M. Yes, I know that even then it could easily harm your eyes. It's just to indicate the power in that situation.

I'm not trying to turn this thread into a "let's gang up on Jeroen" thread, just pointing out some things are foolish.

No problem.

[JimBo]

When I output one single beam using Pangolin (so NOT with scanners powered off!) I'm not able to burn or melt paper or plastic even when it's 10cm-distance in front of the laserprojector aperture

I'd ask for your money back, my 150mW green will do that easily

Jim

[JeroenVDV]

I'd ask for your money back, my 150mW green will do that easily :bouncy:

Jim

.. One beam in Pangolin means the laser is almost completely blanked ..

I'll test it again this weekend

[greenalien]

If you don't do audience scanning, you have nothing to worry about. On the other hand, as in the pics in this thread, you have a responsibility to your audience not to damage them - and the only way to do that is to calculate their exposure, as in this excellent article for example :
http://www.pangolin.com/resguide09a.htm

If you can't be bothered to do this, should you really be doing audience scanning?

Saying that you've seen other people do similar shows isn't a reasonable argument.

Whether audience scanning is legal or not, if someone takes a photo of your show, to prove you were scanning the audience, and then claims to have suffered visual damage and sues you, if you can't provide proof that your show was safe then you could find yourself in for a very expensive lesson. Insurance won't be any protection either.

(I've been to enough parties/raves/festivals/whatever to know that the audience, and usually the DJ's/LJ's/VJ's often want things brighter/louder/faster - but sometimes somebody has to exercise a little informed restraint!)

[JeroenVDV]

Just a question as "side step".. Why is it permitted to have soundsystems on events that destroy your ears if you don't have earplugs, and are people complaining about audience scanning? Just include the "Very bright lasers on this event - own risk (sunglasses advised)"-warning below the "Very loud sound - own risk"-warning on the tickets?

[allthatwhichis]

Hey man, bout time for some Gatorade with that hole you're digging.

That does look like a cool show, but after attending the Scanning Seminar and the LDI show last weekend, I am a lil more informed on the mountain of work it takes to make a show "Safe" for audience scanning. I say a lil,meaning I knew nothing, now I know a lil.

Now I know nothing of your show, but from your previous posts and your responses here, I can make the observation that you can plan and build a pimp projector, but I don't want to be on the dance floor at your show unless you got a more responsable light director and safety guy on site. I'd be happy to watch any and all videos you make from the audience though.

[JeroenVDV]

I don't want to be on the dance floor at your show unless you got a more responsable light director and safety guy on site.

Do you want to be on the dance floor at a show like this?

[allthatwhichis]

I wasn't sure about that one the first time I saw it either. Those are what, 10W yags? But with distance and divergence I think that is a safer show.

I was at an impromptu meet where we had what I think was a 1W RGB doing some beam shows and we did some audience scanning. The distance from the projector was probably 30 feet. I was slightly uncomfortable sitting in the audience and our "safety guy" decided to put a beam expander at the projector aperature after a little while just to be safe. At home I have a lil 300mW RGB and I feel far less safe walking through the beam accidently because it is only 12 feet away from where I watch it from. I don't scan myself at all at home, the beam is way too small.

The beams from your show look much more concentrated than the big show you just posted. Although I'm not sure I would want to be in the front row of that one either.