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Thread: Audience Scanning??

  1. #1
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    Default Audience Scanning??

    OK, im a laser show company in the USA. I know pretty much all the laws and regulations and restraints imposed on us and then i just read this from the ILDA website-

    Direct from ILDA website-
    "A highlight (of the Laser theater) will be the U.S. introduction of safe, federally approved international-style audience scanning shows. If you have never experienced legal direct laser scanning, you are in for a treat -- it is like being inside a fireworks display!"

    As far as i know, and i have been known to be wrong once or twice in my life, audience scanning was a BIIIGGGGG NO NO in the US!?!?! (over 5mW obviously)

    Does anyone know what the story of this new "accepted" audience scanning practice is all about? what the guidelines are? i looked through the links i have for CDRH and i cant find anything. i even called Emir Galevi (My local variance guy) and he doesnt know. ????

    does anyone know the limits and the amendments one would have to make to their variance to allow for this? OBVIOUSLY i know direct slow scanning of relativley high powered laser is still NOT going to be allowed, but what IS allowed with this new "accepted federally approved international-style audience scanning shows?"

    -Marc
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    Default

    Im sure the person to give the best reply to your question is Bill from Pangolin as im sure he was involved with changing the USAs FDA perception on audience scanning

    all i know is that it involves larger beam divergence, and also using the pangolin software to reduce the beam intensity when in the audience area , and other things


    over to you Bill ( i think he posts here on weekends, so might be a wait ) unless any other guys have the answer



    all the best .... Karl

  3. #3
    mixedgas's Avatar
    mixedgas is offline Creaky Old Award Winning Bastard Technologist
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    before you get hyped up about it, your gonna have to buy a whole certified system. It will be Pangolin and LSDI. Bill mentioned some details at Selem, and your looking at larger diameters, active beam power control,special licensing. mandatory operator training, owning a exposure meter and a bunch of other protocols. Probably a pcaom or aom for fast enough shuttering.

    It may also be like it is in europe, where a third party comes in and certifies your show as safe.

    Its not gonna be a simple variance mod. if you wish to do it without proprietary technology, I have the CDRH's example calculations book on audience scanning and about the only simple thing variance thing you could get away with today is laser rain using hundreds/thousands of beams off of spinning gratings.

    Steve Roberts

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    soforene is offline The Troll formerly known as Herbert Von Poople-Futtocks
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    Thumbs down

    Ya gotta feel sorry for the little peeps who will never experience this kind of immersion due to those Health and Safety nutjobs (or will it be the litiginous society?).
    Meanwhile we can sit in our garages, sheds, spare rooms, outhouses and truly experience all that lasers have to offer.

    I wonder if the guys at the meets will start bringing along disclaimers that have to be filled in by all attendee's just to cover their asses .........

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    Audiance scanning legal ..oooohhhh at price i am sure !

    At the Uk laser meet in august 07 , mark the Uk distributor for NEO had a full colour system with i am sure a pangolin "lens" that diverged the beams ... it wasnt a smll thing more like a very large soup plate size and shape over the laser aperture ....i am sure he mentioned that their were attempts being made to "pass" this for almost automatic audiance scanning ...in other words install , assess and walk away ..it would basically take interferance with the unit to make it unsafe

    Anyways my memeory may be wrong but i think that was the jist of it ...as you say Bill will no doubt have the full story and mark can maybe chip in too

    PAUL
    In the beginning there was none. Then came the light - #1 UKLEM - 2007
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    Just an example of audience scanning in the US that I have mentioned before is with the Roger Waters Tour, which I believe is still out currently.

    I am sure if you googled it you would find a few pictures of the Giant 3 dimensional laser prism that has a laser beam of diffracted light coming out of one side that scans the crowd (word on the street - its a 100w custom Arctos unit!!!!)

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    Giant 3 dimensional laser prism

    Thats called Pink Floyd.
    I hired an Italian guy to do my wires. Now they look like spaghetti!

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    I'm well aware of that fact...

    However, the second half of Roger Waters' tour consists of Dark Side of the Moon from beginning to end. Therefore the entire show revolves around the prism centerpiece... Originally the prism was always drawn as a 2 dimensional figure, and the Waters' tour improved upon this, bringing it to life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Laser View Post
    Giant 3 dimensional laser prism

    Thats called Pink Floyd.

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    thanks for all the replies guys!!

    while im all for safety and OF COURSE not scan some "X" Watt laser into peoples faces purposely, i *DO* wish the regulations would ease up a little bit on what we can and cant do!

    Lets face it, in my honest opinion (NO, i have not done the math on it!) a 2W yag scanning a liquid sky in a nightclub is (again, just my *opinion*) NOT anything to be too nervous about! i have been nailed with PLENTY of scans, PLENTY of even straght beams while doing set ups. no, of course it isnt fun, and it isnt something i reccomend, but in all honesty, my eye sight is perfectly fine!! yeah, after it happens, takes a few seconds for my eyes to readjust, but again, eyes are perfectly fine!

    Once again, im not suggesting being allowed to take ANY laser and legally be able to just aim it down into a crowd of people. OF COURSE NOT! but, some scans, some effects i think we can all agree- are moving so fast, and dissipating so much of the energy over such a vast area that the possibility of being hurt is next to impossible.

    i may be VERY wrong here, but as far as i know, in the markets where "audience scanning" is NOT controlled, there have been ZERO reports of ANY injuries. (again, this is NOT fact, just as far as i know!). and i have seen some VERY irresponsible audience scanning. like 20+W of yags shooting DIRECTLY down on people.

    any thoughts?

  10. #10
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    I wonder if the guys at the meets will start bringing along disclaimers that have to be filled in by all attendee's just to cover their asses .........[/QUOTE]

    have already signed them twice, once in Canda and once in Nebraska.

    Steve

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