Great! FBI zaps couple for shining laser at cop helicopter

[soforene]

"When the light hit the cockpit, it disoriented the Kern County Sheriff’s pilot, causing pain and discomfort in his eyes for a couple of hours, the FBI said in a statement."

I do feel that the big tough Sherrif was "making a point" for the purposes of prosecution here rather than experiencing actual harm.

Now there's no harm in slapping the morons that did it with a big stick but the danger is that (once again) newspapers pick up on the "Sensationalist" elements of stories like this with the result that eventually, Laser owners will be regarded as almost terrorists.

"So why exactly do you need so much equipment which has the potential to blind pilots and bring planes down involving massive loss of life, Sir?"

[mliptack]

now there are cheap chinese lasers and proliferation from the likes of "wicked Lasers" etc You can get a green laser pointer higher then class IIIB now, and much easier then you can get a legal or illegal AK-47

I can see it now the Lord Of War II.

the claims of "pain and discomfort in his eyes for a couple of hours" or eye damage from a plane flying at thousands of feet away from a laser, almost any handheld power laser ridiculous.

Sure you can flashblind the pilot, but you aren't going to do much more than that. You'd have a hard enough time hitting the pilot in the first place, and even then actually being able to keep it on them long enough for any real damage to occur.

This is a nation of hypochondriacs and adults who grew up watching star wars and believe the hollywood laser crap. It's such a joke to hear the claims these fools can come up with.

It does say he was only 500 in the air. But I agree, I still hear the old laser version of the Red Ryder BB Gun from A Christmas Story. While yes it is entirely possible to lose my vision from this hobby. I make it not probable, with precaution, goggles and such.

problem is lasers permeate our society now. every modern household probably has several laser devices at home. The powers are getting higher and higher too. Even if lasers are banned or heavily regulated, they will still be available to the ones who seek to use them for maliciousness. Just like firearms or anything else. We don't need new regulations, we need to enforce what we already have.

I think we are already enforcing what we have. Its just unfortunate that the law will only step in after someone does something stupid. You can preemptively take a laser away from someone... So even with this enforcement, the news is still going to show stories about people shining pointers into pilots' eyes.

What about an age law. Make it law you must be 18 to buy a laser. Like drinking, smoking and driving. Those three things all cause hundereds of thousdands of deaths every year, but we are ALL still allowed to do it, but after a certain age. Obvioulsy you'll have the obvious under age laserists.

Perhaps sellers like wicked lasers should step in a make an effort to educate its consumer base on laser safefy and stop glamourising the use of lasers.

They do... or well did have one... when red pointers first became so popular you had to be 18 years old. I was probably around 10-12 when I first walked into a store and bought one. Clearly they were pretty lenient about the law. And I think Wicked lasers is just a ridiculous company, being an industry leader in laser pointers they should take a better stance regarding the safe use of lasers.

And I just want to clarify... we need to stop glamorizing stupidity with lasers. And let the pro's with the real toys do their job!

With people that that in the general population, you're going to have problems - period. It sucks that we have to deal with the fallout, but that's the trade-off for being able to buy cheap lasers. (Everyone else can buy them too.)

I'm not sure a "laser registry" would help at all. And there's no funding available for an approved "Laser Safety Class" that would be required prior to purchase... No, I think the best we can do is to educate people when these stories come out. Write your newspaper and correct the errors. Talk to your neighbors. And for Christ's sake don't ever shine your lasers up into the air, especially if there are planes around! Lead by example, as it were.

Wicked Lasers could take a more pro-active stance and offer a little "training" right on their website. That might help too... But they seem to be a bit too cavalier for that.

Adam

This thread is starting to remind me of the blue collar comedy tour. "Ya cant fix stupid." "Here's your sign."

I'm all for the equal rights of use... but I dont want to be the one hindered by the laws the stupid person indirectly places on my freedom.

I think a registry wouldn't really help either, but there has to be something. Some way to differentiate us from them. Like I said above I know I use my lasers safely, I take precautions, and while I have pointed a 5mW in the sky it was when no planes were around, and it was years ago. I don't do it anymore because if an accident does happen, they find out I am the responsible one... then I have my rights to use higher power lasers taken away from me.

Laser Lips:

I disagree with the age limit. I had my first 10mw HeNe when I was 14 shortly after volunteering at a planetarium.

E-gads, that was 21 years ago (Get off my lawn!). Light Amplification of Stimulated Emission of Radiation has had a profound impact on my career path(s). As well as a couple of my my friends. One of my best friends has been working at Coherent for 12 years.

The problem is, like in most everything, is stupid people. I place a huge amount of blame on the likes of Wicked Lasers et al. The glorification and weaponization of high power pointers.

From Wicked's site
"Laser Range > 15 miles
Make holes in black trash bags
Open-cut healing power*
Daytime smoke detection
Stings bare skin
Burn dark fabrics
Laser Range > 50 miles
Pop dark colored balloons
Ignite wooden or paper matches
Cut black electrical tape
Etch dark plastics and leathers
Light fireworks
Melt rubber and plastics
Laser Range > 100 miles
Waterproof
Tesla Technology
Light cigars and cigarettes
"

It is no longer a scientific instrument it is a mini death ray LaZeR (sharks not included).
Ask 99% of the " OMG teH laZer cAns pOp baLooNz an liGht maTcheZ !!1!eleventy" knuckle dragers what LASER means.
When I got my first, couple of watt, air cooled ion I did burn some stuff light cigarettes do all of the usual crap but that lasted about an hour. Then it was time to get out the prisms, galvos, cook up some exar 8038 boards.

Chad

1st - what exactly is open cut healing power?
2nd - When (thats hopeful Max there) I get my greenie that I am waiting on I am sure I will play with it's burning capabilities for a little. It might not be entirely intentional either

Chad you disagree with the age limit, and yeah I did too... then. But the 5mW pointers (or HeNe tubes in your case ) we had as kids are nothing compared to the wicked pointers people have now. Even as a child I knew what could happen from a laser, I knew you could get hurt. But as you said now there are the l33t sp33k -ing laser enthusiasts who don't know the first thing about laser safety.

"When the light hit the cockpit, it disoriented the Kern County Sheriff’s pilot, causing pain and discomfort in his eyes for a couple of hours, the FBI said in a statement."

I do feel that the big tough Sherrif was "making a point" for the purposes of prosecution here rather than experiencing actual harm.

Now there's no harm in slapping the morons that did it with a big stick but the danger is that (once again) newspapers pick up on the "Sensationalist" elements of stories like this with the result that eventually, Laser owners will be regarded as almost terrorists.

"So why exactly do you need so much equipment which has the potential to blind pilots and bring planes down involving massive loss of life, Sir?"

I agree it does sound like he was making a point. I understand that a quick flash can be very discomforting, but I would never consider the pain to be ongoing for a few hours after.

Well there's my 2 cents... ok more like my buck fifty.

[steve-o]

These stories are getting alot of publicity, and now with fines and jail-time attached for all to see, even the worst Darwin Award candidate may think twice before shining a laser at an aircraft or occupied vehicle. I can see the US Gov't banning the import of Chinese lasers, though.

[buffo]

I can see the US Gov't banning the import of Chinese lasers, though.

That's exactly what I'm afraid of, Steve-o. And that's why I get so pissed off when I read these stories about blinding pilots with pointers.

Hey, you want a blinding weapon? Mount a 20 watt 808 nm pump diode in a big fat hunk of brass and set it on your dashboard facing forward. Turn it on while you're stopped at an intersection and honk your horn. The guy in front will look back and wonder what the problem is. And what is that shiny thing on his dash.?. Would only take a couple seconds, and he'd never know what hit him...

My point is, there are better ways to take out an airliner than using a laser, and there are better ways to blind people than using a VISIBLE beam. But all of this is lost on the mainstream press, and thus when some idiot politician decides that "something needs to be done about the laser threat", it's us hobbyists that pay the price.

Adam

[steve-o]

Yeah Adam, I agree. On the good side though, when (if) laser TVs are finally realized, you can possibly get a replacement 'component' (the RGB module) from the manufacturer to 'fix' your broken tv set, just ordering it directly as you would any other electronic or optical part .
I think I'll go Google Laser TV and see how theyre progressing; It was supposed to be out this year, I thought.

[Pangolin]

Hi all,

Just a few points:

Actions like this will put a hamper on our fun soon.......if something is not done. I guess we will soon have to obtain a permit to get a laser......

Well, this is not the first time that people have done stupid things with a laser pointer. They have been going on for years, so far with nothing happening with US-regulations regarding laser pointers, and also nothing with US-regulations regarding laser shows in general (as a result of laser pointer abuse). However, I will say that, in the past, each time something like this would happen, it would make us nervous.

The last time something like this happened that made prominent news was Christmas of 2004, where someone was actually thrown in jail for a number of years for allegedly shining a laser pointer into the cockpit of an aircraft, from their backyard. As a result of that, and the media flurry that resulted, Pangolin created two web pages, which can be seen here:
http://www.pangolin.com/resguide09c.htm

and here:
http://www.pangolin.com/resguide09d.htm

We also alerted all of the media that was trumping up the story, and pointed them to our pages so that they could get high quality information on the matter. It was also a good exercise for us to establish these pages in the first place, so that hopefully future media searches on the internet might turn up those pages, and thus help to get good quality information out there.

In a few other countries, including UK and (I can't remember the others), laser pointers have been outright banned. I am a bit surprised that something like this hasn't happened in the US, but on the other hand I see companies like Wicked Lasers outright promoting the abuse of laser pointers (for example, I don't know any university professors who have a legitimate need to melt black tape with a laser pointer...). Honestly, it makes me wonder if there aren't lobbyists for laser pointer companies...

the claims of "pain and discomfort in his eyes for a couple of hours"

We have been in this business for a long time, and have been very active in getting the word out about the tremendously GOOD safety record lasers have, and also at debunking the myths about lasers and pointer injuries. And we have seen these kind of claims a lot.

Unfortunately, a lot of it is just pure BS. For example, I will never forget the story where there was a pilot who looked at a laser being shone from the ground and then complained of MAJOR discomfort in his eyes afterward. He went to see an ophthamologist (standard practice after any kind of eye injury for pilots) and you will never guess what he found. Well, the pilot had eaten Mexican food just before getting on the plane, and still had hot sauce on his hands. When he saw the laser, he started rubbing his eyes, and basically got hot sauce in his eyes. Redness and discomfort? Sure!! Absolutely!! But not from the laser...

Anyway, after all of our experiences with this, and our help in defending it, I am not too worried about idiots with laser pointers affecting our craft. We have done a good job in defending it, and I think if anything happens, it will be only regulations on laser pointers.

Best regards,

William Benner

[mliptack]

Hey there Bill, I have stumbled upon both of those pages before in the years of research I have done in regards to lasers. It is a very interesting bit of information.

I have a question regarding this paragraph in the second link

Normally, the FAA has no authority or jurisdiction over outdoor lasers. Anyone can shine lasers into the air without seeking FAA approval. The FAA certainly encourages people to file reports (using Advisory Circular 70-1 [caution: 2.2 MB download]). The FAA will review the reports and will send back a letter saying whether they object to the laser use.
However, no one is required to file this report with the FAA, and there are no penalties if you ignore an FAA letter of objection. The only exception is, of course, laser light shows. This is because if the FAA objects, then the FDA will not give its permission (variance).
This is one reason why legal laser shows, those reported to the FDA and FAA, have had an excellent safety record since new requirements were developed in the late 1990s.

You say that anyone can shine a laser into the sky as long as its not a laser show. So would it be legal for me to shine a 40watt into the sky as long as it is safely away from airplanes?

Also, lets say I added a motor with a mirror perpendicular to the motor shaft slightly angled (to produce a circle with the laser). Would this then classify that 40w laser as a laser show and thus requiring a variance?

Thanks in advance.
-Max

[buffo]

Max;

I believe the point Bill is making is that the FAA has no jurisdiction over light shows directly. The CDRH had jurisdiction over light shows involving commerce, and THEY require you to get the approval of the FAA. So if the CDRH doesn't have jurisdiction (no commerce in your backyard example), then the FAA can't get involved either.

Now if you are creating a direct hazard to air traffic, then the local police (and possibly the FBI) could get involved, which would seriously suck for you, but that's still not the FAA.

Adam

[Aseras]

for example, I don't know any university professors who have a legitimate need to melt black tape with a laser pointer...

you do now... it makes a really good mobile physics/photonics demonstation. lasers are cool these days and the kids get into it.

firing off a 300mw green in the auditorium over the heads of the qtips ( sorry ) that come in for our lecture series also tends to wake them up.

they make a quick and dirty little demo of the real stuff we are using in our science.

[Aseras]

You say that anyone can shine a laser into the sky as long as its not a laser show. So would it be legal for me to shine a 40watt into the sky as long as it is safely away from airplanes?

as long as you don't intentionally interfere with aircraft it's technically ok.

We use the scientific exemption to do a lot of things where I work because technically we are a airport ( heli pad ) and we are also within 5 miles of an airport and we do use some high powered lasers outside.

the faa reports are only "recommendations" anyways.


follow proper safety, keep a spotter and have a good reason to be firing off your laser and you should be fine.