argon krypton Ebay-

[dsli_jon]

you guys think it is still worth getting a higher powered argon system or ar/kr in this market??

Hey Marc -

I, for one, raise my hand high and say YES. And as Chad nicely explained, neither 3Ø nor water should really be a problem in any venue 'worth' doing a gig in (one where you're likely to get paid, and get paid what you're worth) - yeah, it's a hassle lugging hoses and cable, but somehow, $10K at the end of a well-done show softens the 'pain' a little...

Any commercial building that has a large air-conditioner, should have 3Ø, AND water SOMEwhere, it is usually just a matter of how FAR AWAY / accessible it is (ie, if water is ONLY avail via 1/2" bathroom / sink lines, well, CAN work, but will be a challenge; and even if the 3Ø is ONLY avail off some giant transformer with NO disconnects or breakers (like sometimes you see around here, in el Sal) it's gonna be tricky, but not impossible...)

And, at least for mid-power WLs (ie Coh I-90) don't NEED to be run off 3Ø, they can easily be run off a modded-Am909 'switching' supply, just at higher amps...

Besides, show me a DPSS WL that can do THIS (below...I don't mean HAVING a machita, I mean the inherent-spectrals; and yes, this tube was very red-heavy..) - WL Ions still, to-date, give the most 'beam for the buck', especially in the higher powers - I will put up a $20K 171 WL up against a $100K+ 15W DPSS WL, ANYDAY - better beam quality, better inherent color-availability, and a HELL of a lot easier to get a back-up for, or especially AT, a gig!!!!

Don't NEED a backup with a DPSS, you say?? Hmm, well, I for one won't be betting MY $30K-in-one-nite Show on only ONE laser any time soon... what do you do IF, your DPSS WL takes an on-site shyte on you? - THEN ask for 3Ø and water??? Bzzt! Of course, SOME (like Arctos) approach things smartly with a multiply-redundant design, but they are also multiply-f*kn-expensive... especially since the only smart thing to do is buy 2...or 3.... (OUCH!)

And hey, Chad yep, have done the old 'CPR' (cathode pressure-resucitation) but that, like your story demoed, should only be done in a true emergency - better to simply run the sys without starting it, allowing the cath to glow for 24+hrs, FIRST, before you resort to 'CPR'...

OK, I'll shut-up now!

- J

[clandestiny]

I posted some comments about the i90 sled in a new post-
check it out

[godfrey]

Alright - I'm digging up an old post, I know... But this is still up for auction on eBay, now it's $999 (or best offer).

I've looked at this for quite some time and I'm begining to agree with most of you that it's trash and not worth spending the cash on. I just happened to run across this post when looking for info on the unit on google.


However, I'd like to know - is it really worth having both tubes replaced or re-gassed even though it may cost $4,000 plus?




On another note:

I might be getting a free power supply for SP 168 heads soon from a medical system. He is now using a 265 exciter and does not need the other. Does anyone have any 168 heads they'd like to sell?


Thanks - and sorry for digging up the old thread.


Phil

[buffo]

is it really worth having both tubes replaced or re-gassed even though it may cost $4,000 plus?

Depends on your situation, Phil...

Do you have ready access to 3 phase power? Are you doing commerical shows where you *need* lots of power? Will these lasers add to your revenue stream? And are you comfortable working with ion lasers?

If the answer to all these questions is yes, then it might be a good deal for you. Figure on closer to 6 grand to get them up to spec though, and that assumes that the cathodes are still good. (If they're bad, you're screwed.)

On the other hand, if you're a hobbyist that doesn't have access to 3 phase power, and/or if you've never worked with an ion laser before, then you're probably setting yourself up to waste a grand of good money (or more) that you could otherwise spend on a solid state rig.

I might be getting a free power supply for SP 168 heads soon from a medical system. He is now using a 265 exciter and does not need the other. Does anyone have any 168 heads they'd like to sell?

They pop up on E-bay from time to time. That's the same model head that Stanwax has. They're nice units. But again, you're stuck with 3 phase power and water cooling. If you're OK with that, then go ahead and start collecting gear. A free power supply is a nice start. Assuming you find a head to go with it, you'd be off and running.

Truthfully though, ion lasers that need 3 phase power are beasts. Unless you've got a workshop or warehouse that has 3 phase power to start with, you're *always* going to have trouble. (Sure, you can build a rotary phase converter, but that's *more* money you'll have to spend, and it will be so heavy you won't be able to move it out of your garage.)

For 7 grand you can build one hell of a nice RGB solid state projector, and still have enough money left over for a controller and software. Sure, it won't do 5 watts, but do you really need that much power? (Remember that even if you spend 7 grand on these ion lasers and they come back from the refurb shop at full spec, you still need a PCAOM, scanners, a controller, and software... So you're talking about a lot more than 7 grand to have a fully-functional projector based on these lasers.)

That's my $.02 anyway...

Adam

[godfrey]

Do you have ready access to 3 phase power?

Not at the moment, I would require a rotary converter which I can build.

Are you doing commercial shows where you *need* lots of power?

No. This would be a very expensive and large toy for the time being.

Will these lasers add to your revenue stream?

I'm supposed to earn money?

And are you comfortable working with ion lasers?

Yes.

If the answer to all these questions is yes, then it might be a good deal for you. Figure on closer to 6 grand to get them up to spec though, and that assumes that the cathodes are still good. (If they're bad, you're screwed.)

Crap...Thanks for putting it in perspective for me though, seriously.

For 7 grand you can build one hell of a nice RGB solid state projector, and still have enough money left over for a controller and software.

Yes, I know - it just intrigues me to have a couple of large frame ions. I suppose to me, larger must be better...however in this case I know it's not true because for what I can spend on a solid state unit I can get much more and it can run on a medium size power inverter just for fun.

Adam, seriously - thanks for pointing out the potential problems one could encounter when purchasing any older laser in "unknown" condition. I'm just seeing what's out there. From what I've been told this unit uses the I-90 OEM heads, which in working condition usually sell for a lot more. $999 just sounds good, though it is likely this unit has not been started for a very long time and could have problems igniting.

[buffo]

No problem Phil;

If you've got some experience with medium frame ion lasers, then that's a plus. And if you go into this knowing full well that you are buying yourself an expensive toy, then you'll at least be prepared. Though I still think it's a sucker's bet.

A couple things: An I-90 really doesn't qualify as a large frame laser in my book. I-100, yes. But the I-90 is similar to the SP-168 that Rob has. And yeah, they are nice units. But they suffer from the same problems that the big boys do. (They need to be run periodically to keep the pressure down, and they don't like to be moved around. You'll need to know how to tweak the alignment if you want to keep it running.)

Also, building a rotary phase converter is costly, unless you have a source for the parts. You're talking about a 20-30 hp 3 phase industrial motor, a large buck-boost transformer, a 3 phase disconnect, plus some other parts. Figure on a grand, minimum. Then your power bill is going to go through the roof whenever you run it.

*But*, I will offer this: Assuming that you've got some ion experience, and assuming that you could travel to the location where they have this laser, you *might* be able to convince them to let you test it before you buy it. (looks like it's not going to sell on E-bay anyway, so this may be an option) So you go there, fire it up, and see what you get. If it won't even ionize, walk away, and all you've lost is the cost of the gas for the trip.

If you can get the plasma to light up, then look at the cathode and see how it looks. Inspect the mirrors and brewster stems. And, of course, see if the thing actually lases.

If it does lase, I wouldn't bother walking the mirrors. I'd go ahead and buy it and take the chance that you'll be able to walk it in. (If you dial it in for them and you get it to make 5 watts or more, they might then decide it's worth more and re-list it as a working laser!) Better to make some vague comment about low power - end of life - might be fun to tinker with - and see if they go for it.

But you're still spending a grand on it, plus another grand on the rotary phase converter, plus at least a grand (if not more) for a PCAOM. So that's a minimum of 3 grand (plus shipping, if you can't carry it back home with you), and that assumes that both tubes are good.

If you can't travel to see it in operation before you bid, I would avoid it like the plague. It would have to be a super deal for me to jump on it. (Something like $500 including shipping...) And even then I don't know that I'd go for it, simply because I'd probably never fire it up for more than an hour a month to keep it from going high pressure. And for such little use, I've got other lasers in mind to spend my money on...

I will say that I feel your pain. I got bitten by the ion bug a while back, and came really close to jumping into the 3 phase club. After talking with Clandestiny, however, I realized that it was more of an ego thing. I didn't really have a need for one, I just wanted one. But that's a dumb reason to buy an expensive, fragile, cantankerous ion laser. (Thanks to Paul for screwing my head back on straight!)

If you really want an ion, consider something like a Lexel 88, or even an ALC 68B. They can run off 220V single phase power (use your clothes-drier outlet), and in the case of the 68B they are air cooled. (The Lexel needs water.) You'll spend about the same amount of money, but have something that is easier to care for and easier to operate. And that means you'll get more use out of it, and likely be happier with it as a result.

Adam