Who did CONANs show

[mixedgas]

Actually, I did do that gig as part of my alter ego... Evil Undercutter Laser Guy. You guys didn't recognize me, because my alter ego is in the Witness Protection Program.

NOBODY HAS STILL PRODUCED THE CORRECT VIDEO!!!

You need the one with lasers scanning Nightly News Host Brian Williams setting next to Conan with lasers coming from behind them, at face level, from something that looks like a intellabeam with a scanner pair before the stepper driven mirrors. Plus the bigger fan effects from higher up. And while I'm no mindreader, I doubt those face illuminating beams were IIIa. Then Conan gets up and dances upon the desk again. the sad part is, with the show having to book low and i mean LOW cost variety acts, and booking bartenders teaching Conan how to make cocktails, ITS much better then with the writers. I do have some empathy for the writers, as my own day job just got chopped to 2 days a week. As far as I remember, audience WAS present and beams were LOW!

Steve

[clandestiny]

The point I'm addressing in this post is that just because something is irresponsible, dosen't make it illegal.

The way I see it- 80 percent of the population who viewed these segments probably had a few laughs, turned the tube off and went to bed. 10 percent probably thought wow, that was cool maybe i'd like to see a laser show sometime. The remaining 10 percent might have said wait a minute, the cops took my pointer away but they let O'brian do anything.

what the actual impact these shows had on the industry, knowone knows.

We are here collectively because on some level or another we enjoy laser light and or laser displays. So its natural we may be sensitive to what we have witnessed.

Again whats legal, and whats irresponsible.

Heres my plausible explanation of the way this went down-

I can conclude the bit was rehearsed. Best example is O'brian playing with the beams, one of which he terminates by hand.

Did you catch just before the lights go out- he makes a point of showing the red mushroom termination switch- may even have been a non functioning prop- but he showed it- covering his bases-

As we know the writers strike continues. With exception of Lettermans arrangement, talk shows have no guests- as the guests are not interested in crossing the picket line. So O'brian needs a bit. He comes up with the german disco- he needs lasers , they make calls - he finds lasers.

I understand one may be angry about not getting the gig- or being low balled, or questioning the legality of no class b operator.
This I understand. Laser professionals would prefer things are done in the correct and legal fashion. does this always happen-
of course not-

If you dont have guests- do you need an audience-this is what we dont know- This may have been a closed set- at that point even with new yorks standards do you even need a class b operator- closed set , no audience, no violation
They may have even played the laser bit back on a video screen in front of a live audience or simply dubbed the laugh track-

If you wanted to stretch it, you could argue the commerce occured when the video aired nationally, but I don't think it would get you antwhere.

In this litigation happy society of ours the owner/operator of the laser rig would still be liable had a accident occurred on the set.
These are risks you calculate before accepting the gig- if your not comfortable with it- don't do it- however I dont see any regulatory
violation for this individual irreguardless of our personal feelings about it-

closed set- he could have ended the show by setting himself on fire- its his choice

Lastly I dont condone circumventing any saftey laws or regs. I'm just injecting reality into this discussion-

To jon- peace my friend

Hayden- I knew you where in on this from the getgo- I'll get my lasers back this weekend-

[clandestiny]

ahh- mixedgas- I see- we do need to find that video to make a final analisis

[mixedgas]

ahh- mixedgas- I see- we do need to find that video to make a final analisis

Your right, could have been and probably was, a laff track. But still even IIIA on the face in a non audience scanning setup gives me pause. Now we get into how accurate was our witness, if you want to play lawyer. It was late at night and I dont have Tivo (does anybody?) I didnt even get a scanhead count, but it was it least two. (tarm/lobo would have had at least 14.)


FOR THE RECORD< I WAS DAMN GLAD TO SEE LASERS ON NATIONAL TV FOR ONCE< AND PROPERLY HAZED AND PHOTOGRAPHED. I JUST WISH THERE WAS SOME COLOR IN THERE!!!!!

When Disney's liability lady briefed us at a ILDA Conf, (Nice Lady, wish I had her card) Disney's argument against aud scanning was "You have a world class young heart surgeon in your audience, and even though your doing a safe show, he claims eye damage, and thus sues you for the cost of establishing his practice and education, plus his projected yearly revenue till he's 65, plus 3X punatives, and figgure if he wins his nurses and partners sue you too for their chunk of the income."

That scarred the hell outa me, because retinal injury is so hard to find, there really are only 4-5 places in the United States with the skills to debunk a false one, and they are not ones that would be too interested in helping out a poor laserist, ie Air Force at Brooks, Sliny for teh Army, The opthalmic research group at a hospital in Boston etc... The number of places that can do it is growing with optical coherence tomography , but........

Steve

[mixedgas]

It is all explained here in League of Darwinism. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8MEhIcmo7Q[/QUOTE]


I want my title changed from Senior Member, to "Member, League of Darwinism"

Thanks Pat for a heck of a laugh!!!

And for the record, I have dealt with Arizona once, at a gig that will remain nameless, when a subcontracted laserist showed up stoned/drunk.They were fair, a bit overly conservative on beam placement, but fair. I was the not the LSO, but I did the initial on site brief on behalf of my best friend, who was late, we all know about sleeping in after a tough all night setup! I kept citing I was not the laserist of record, and that I was doing this as a courtesy to keep on schedule and did not know the letter of the law in that State nor all of my Buddies manuals verse by verse. I did have my bud let me sign a "crew member briefing sheet" the night before just in case, and I'm damn glad I did. They gave me professional curtesy because I held a variance and suggested one or two artistic improvements, they did hang around until my buddy got there, and he promptly fired the subcontractee, but we were allowed to keep the equipment , well at least the part that was certificated and worked well enough to pass inspection, on site and use it.
The other subcontractee had made arangements to get licensed on on the spot, preshow. And yes, my buddy carries mobo on his vari, so we could use it.

The drunken fool scanned himself on the scaffold with a lissajous from a argon Mobolazer by having both DMX controlled projectors on the same base address from opposite sides of the room, not waering goggles, aimed at each other right as the inspector walked in. DMX misused, is a hazard as far as I'm concerned. Preshow, AZ helped me tweek beam positions during a sound check with hand signals, nice guy, but tough. That was supposed to be a damn working vacation, not the inquisition, but at least I was not the iqusitee. Post show there was some serious written paperwork and the fool got sued for breach.

Steve

[Hayden]

the video was posted my myspaces by Ian.

http://www.myspace.com/haydenhale

[dsli_jon]

The point I'm addressing in this post is that just because something is irresponsible, dosen't make it illegal.

what the actual impact these shows had on the industry, knowone knows.

the red mushroom termination switch- may even have been a non functioning prop-

I understand one may be angry about not getting the gig- or being low balled, or questioning the legality of no class b operator.

If you dont have guests- do you need an audience-this is what we dont know- This may have been a closed set- at that point even with new yorks standards do you even need a class b operator- closed set , no audience, no violation

however I dont see any regulatory violation for this individual irreguardless of our personal feelings about it-

To jon- peace my friend

Hey Guys -

1st, - Paul - RE: "peace'' - No sweat, bro! - I just figured you were tired last nite, or too much tequila, etc , and yeah, I do tend to be a bit over-passionate about this subject, and I know CAPS can be irritating! - So, please let me assure you that me using your post as a basis for my reply to the THREAD, here (oh, boy, here come the CAPS again...) is not directed at you personally... I hardly know you - only via ILDA and what posts you've made here, and I already hold a great deal of respect for you, cause even from my limited perspective, you are clearly a professional, and - especially being an ILDA member - clearly an ethical dude! So, again, please know that this is NOT an 'attack' on you / your post - BUT:

It's official - NYS KNOWS about the shows (they have access to 'YouTube, too, ya know!) - AND THEY WERE NOT REGISTERED - that is to say, they were performed 'illegally' - now, I concede that it MAY HAVE still been performed by a NYS Licensed guy, but I don't know of a single ClassB guy (PS - checked with the ClassB buddies of mine, in the NYC-area, and they did NOT do the gig)- in his right mind that would RISK his hard-earned, valuable license, doing such a high-profile show, un-registered!!! Risking at least non-renewal, if not revocation, of his license - all for a likely-good-deal-less than $1K / nite??? *BZZT!*...Ya'd have to be an IDIOT...

Again, I also wanna stress - MY GRIPE IS NOT ABOUT THE MONEY - I am glad we did not get the gig. It was really not in our 'price range' - I agreed to do it, last minute, cause the Producer sounded desperate, and I knew they'd need a licensed Op, and we had nothing else going on that week, so, 'OK, yeah, we can help' - but to go lower than $5K for a week, having at a minimum, the loss of $600. to NYS, a Tech, gas, rental truck, tolls, etc, etc - Umm, PASS... MY GRIPE is against when we (or ANYbody) gets 'undercut' by 'hacks', operating illegally - cause then we ALL suffer- trust me, NYS is strict enough, thank you very much!

Sorry, Clan, nothing personal but..

I dont see any regulatory violation for this individual irreguardless of our personal feelings about it

... well, buddy - see pix below... - these shows were perfomed BOTH illegally, AND irresponsably, and now, NYS KNOWS, (withOUT my help, mind you - they already KNEW!!), and told me they "...will be contacting NBC about who did the show", sooo... I mean, do you HONESTLY believe that whoever did this gig got CDRH AND NYS APPROVAL to do close-proximity / direct-contact fx like this - within the 5 days there were between when NBC told us 'they'd gone with someone else' (~1/2/08) and the first show on 1/7 ???

what the actual impact these shows had on the industry, know one knows.

And ya know, the ironic thing is, IF Steve hadn't been valiant enough to decry this in the first place (thanks, Steve!) , I would have not even thought about it - we had already 'written it off', and were on to bigger and better things... so I am sure we'd have known nothing, until the next time we went to do a gig in NY, and found that the reg. fee is now $1000. each show...

As to the audience, well, when the camera pans over to Conans' producer, there, clearly there is audience present - (this was our understanding, as well, from the Producer that called us - we were to rehearse in the early pm, then perform in front of a live audence, on-cue, at Conans 'whim' - one of the reasons behind our thinking with an up/down bounce-mirror array - better looking, predictable, etc, etc) - here's where I got these 'answers' - and hurry - go see it before they take it down - ('curiously', these videos are 'disappearing' off YouTube - the Jan 11th one, with him dancing, face-in, inside the beam-cone / palming the beam, is already gone...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdBeDBt3ACg

..and we still haven't seen this one (I could not see it on 'MySpace, there, Hayden, fyi - I think its' been taken down, too ???) -

You need the one with lasers scanning Nightly News Host Brian Williams setting next to Conan

....You mean it gets WORSE????

PS - I got the stills by 'being quick on the 'mouser-finger' (lots of dead-on laser show cues) and 'screen grabbing' while paused - these are NOT Photoshopped, BTW... - I mean, do I really have to say anything more than the second picture of Conan???? ( HEY Skipp (UV99) - how big would you say Conan's pupil is, there??? ) hahaha - just teasin'... OK, yes, I, too, DOUBT Conan now has retina-damage, blah, blah, but like the 'if a tree falls in the forest, etc, etc' anecdote goes - 'if a laser show is performed illegally and unsafely, but no one gets hurt, does that make it OK'??

So, I rest my friggin' case. I am NOT trying to be 'critical, negative, whiney, a tattle-tale, etc' - I know that 'Karma' will eventually take care of things (and I am not officially 'endorsing' that belief, here, just that 'what goes around, comes around' - Like I said, NYS DOSH already KNOWS...) - TO THE HACK: I suggest you buy the next available ticket to Timbuktu, and bring your lasers, cause this will probably be the LAST gig you ever do in NYS... certainly for NBC, once NYS and NBC have a 'chat'...

...Was prolly 'PR' anyway...

Peace..

- J

[clandestiny]

jon, the point I have is verification on a live audience present, what I have been repeating here was did anyone know if it was a closed set or not?
if you are now saying verifibly that the house was hot and there is proof beams were flying through
the crowd -then that changes the picture considerably-

However if the beams never left the stage under the three meter rule- then conan himself is classified as a performer and i see no foul-

if additional video surfaces showing beams scanned in someone elses face, then there may be liability

I will use ilda resources to track this event for any subsequent citation etc-
I am quite curious-

[clandestiny]

I'll go back through those vids frame by frame, as I recall alot of the light on his face is incident illumination from the surrounding lasers- Ive yet to see in any vid yet-, direct facial contact with an actual beam- for disscussion sake, lets say the second photo is a beam- look at the diameter of that supposed beam for goodness sake,its like staring into a flashlight- I dont know anymore than the next guy that wasn't there either, but my entire face is aglow in a similar fashion while aligning a beam table.
If members of the audience come foreward with some claims of free wheeling audience scans then we'll see-
-
remember again conan himself is classified as a performer in this scenerio- at least thats what will be argued legally- nearly exempting him personally from cdrh-
also litigating partites will need to prove exposure levels one way or the other- a third parties guestimation wont cut it
If they didn't file with nys,and the audience was there, then they may have a spank comming for that-
as far as laser light power levels who knows-
I'm also curious to see how NYS deals with forthcomming cdrh audience scanning approvals
I'm not approving this show, I'm just addressing it from a unbiased platform-

[dsli_jon]

jon, the point I have is verification on a live audience present, ...if you are now saying verifibly that the house was hot..

However if the beams never left the stage under the three meter rule- then conan himself is classified as a performer and i see no foul..

Hey Paul -

Cool, man - I'm with ya... I am waiting a call-back from the NBC Producer - told him 'I just wanna see how things turned out for you guys', blah, blah - I will try and 'diplomatically' find out about where beams went - I can say, SOLELY BASED ON HIS DESCRIPTION to me, of what they were wanting from us - I specfically asked "will there be audience present, and where are they located in the studio, relative to the stage" and the answer was "YES..etc, etc" - so I believe the audience was 'hot', but I will ask, to verify...

RE: 'no foul' - well, again, not to be 'combative', or a 'smart-@$$', but please help me understand, based on Code Rule-50, how this is 'no foul', without approval? MPE levels for a performer?? Well, yes, I cannot prove it is OVER, but on the same basis, we also cannot say 'NO foul' at this point, either, right? I mean, we'll never know, but I'll stake my license that NYS would have a 'shitfit' if they saw this pic, especially coming from an UN-registered gig. And, agreed, not a 'direct-beam' - I am seeing this as a 'weak' mirror-bounce, cause of the shape, and also, there is not a lot of 'speckle' around it (as would likely-be if it had come off a chrome 'par-can' or something) - it is fairly 'clean'...

also ... partites will need to prove exposure levels one way or the I'm not approving this show, I'm just addressing it from a unbiased platform

Understood - and good 'counter-perspective' - again, my whole 'beef' is with NOT having approval, and - more-than-likely - not having a licensed Op. - again, a 'hack', doing the show.. I am sure (I hope) Conan is FINE, and that NO ONE in the audience got hit - I have no idea what they did with their beams, scans, bounces... hopefully, more video will turn up...

peace..

- J