Laserman532 7 Watt White Light Projector Circa 1990

[Laserman532]

Hey Pat, ya got any old shows on tape?
we should get together and show these guys a tapefest.

by tape I mean FM-multitrack or Adat.

I have ADAT

Steve

Funny you should mention that steve. I have and soon to be for sale. a teac 48 & a teac 38 8 track reel to reel FM mod/demod with probably 15 preprogrammed shows to music. push one button and sit back with a big splif and watch pink floyd the wall. As far as taking the time to actually put light on the wall, no chance, BTDT and got the t-shirt.
I got the award winning shows from LFI and used them at the DeAnza Planetarium in Cupertino around '90 or so. Me and Floyd use to be good buds.

pat b

[Laserman532]

OK, a few of my sorrya$$ 'shoe-box' DPSS projects of the past...did an RGY once, but holding off on RGB till the lasers 'ripen' just a weee bit more this has been a great forum, cause I get to learn from all the 'crash and burns' at a distance.. HAHAHAHAHAhahahaa - sorry, that was mean...

Intent was to enter the 'mini-unit' market (largest of these was 6" x 6" x 12"!), and make units for store-fronts, dynamic in-store 'laser signs', DJ-units (a 30K graphics-capable 'PRO' unit to rival all the 'what's-the-point-outside-of-your-bedroom' lissajous-boxes) etc, but with the new wave of chinese stuff coming out, the 'narrow-to-begin-with' profit margins just made it seem like a great big...WHY???... so, it was fun while it lasted..

peace...

- J

Hey wait a minute there grasshopper, you never told me you did these things. "that right thar is some fine work youself thar" DAMN FINE WORKMANSHIP (and really that is what I like) VERY NICE SHOBOX!!!!!

[stanwax]

push one button and sit back with a big splif and watch pink floyd the wall.

Now that is my idea of heaven!

Rob

[clandestiny]

Jon, yes, they are terrys tables,- I don't know how many he built, but in the end- I still have 5
and yes, one of those made an appearance at the first ever flem-
they are works of art-

they handle a pair of small frame units, you can combine output of the two, or use one laser for a scanner plus turrets- and the other for a second scanner- they have a cool old school programable console that goes with em-

for large frames- ie innova 400's i have a collection of laser media tables- although they sport fresh electronics for the gm20's- lots of cool stuff on those- imparticular the all in one color box/galvo blanking boxes- scanner blanking and dichro flags for color are stll alive and well in 20 to 30 watt ion systems-

if your using ion lasers- you still need a way safely mount/transport/and align the laser- so beam tables make alot of sense for the ion user- plus everything is safe and secure under the table to deture enquiring minds

the second item, which i have discussed elsewhere in this forum- is that for me, i dont like the single source look of just a scan head/ box
yes its true , alot of the big money effects are lauched from a set of scanners-
but I always liked the look and function of a full table-
a single scanner set to me- has a cheapend disco light feel to it-
but a four to seven foot long table with 20 or so output positions- with 50/50 or 25/25/25/25
splitter per position sweeping back and forth through the various positions-
is very tough to beat,
I think the fact that beams are launching across such a wide area gives the impression to the audience that their getting their moneys worth LOL
a beam table will give the veiwer the impression he is seeing lots of different lasers-
rather than all the effects appearing from the same wiewing source and projection cone/area

beam tables rule- It's to bad many have quit using them-

2nd item that completely rules- diffraction grateings-

I think Allwhich-zurcher- or maybe buffo can direct you to some video they may have taken of it in action at flem

[dsli_jon]

Jon, yes, they are terrys tables,- I don't know how many he built, but in the end- I still have 5...they are works of art-

they handle a pair of small frame units,...

i have a collection of laser media tables- although they sport fresh electronics for the gm20's- lots of cool stuff on those- imparticular the all in one color box/galvo blanking boxes- scanner blanking and dichro flags for color are stll alive and well in 20 to 30 watt ion systems-

if your using ion lasers- you still need a way safely mount/transport/and align the laser-

but I always liked the look and function of a full table-
is very tough to beat,

I think the fact that beams are launching across such a wide area gives the impression to the audience that their getting their moneys worth LOL..
It's to bad many have quit using them-

Hey Paul - TOTALLY WITH YA, DUDE!!!

Yeah, Terry made some primo kits... sadly, by the time I met him, most of his L-A stuff was gone - he only had one projector left, and it had been scrapped for parts - no GM20s, no electronics, just a shell - almost bought it, but didn't happen to have the cash that month, so...bought a bunch of hose / feeder / couple of roadcases / few mirrors from him- great guy - too bad he decided to cash-out ...
I seem to remember him saying they were 'designed' for Lexie 95s (size-wise) - would love to see yours 'kickin it out', some day...

RE: Laser Media - yeah, another 'blast from the past' - first 'Pro' Co I worked with was Stone Mountain, for like 2 yrs (seasons) ~94-95; learned a LOT studying / aligning those LM tables - studied EVERY INCH - made little drawings...yeah they were cool...
and I had to learn ZAP (!!) cause that's what they used for the sho, there in Rochester - every few weeks, they'd send new EEPROMs with updated animes, etc, and we'd have to get out the little 'burner' and dupe em for all the 'slaves'...regardless of how 'mundane' much of that seems, now, I was super-stoked, and learned a LOT... I just offline-sold one of those old GS 120 'TurboBlankers' - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=330200781345 - still have a couple, and at least 2 LM color-boxes - smart, cool stuff...

Here's an 'old skool bad boy' we acquired in '07, (see end-of-post...)- this is an old 'IIC' projector, and it does NOT go out on the road!- destined for a permanent install in SoCal, after some mods / updates... for the road, we use the 'mini' table-systems for our 'Greenies' and/or can take one of our Purelights, 171s, (or bigger (ie: x-rented I-400 or Sabre, etc), if need be) and just park 'em up to 'em on a table, with pre-registered mounts, etc...for smaller gigs, we use an 'LT-1000'-style, and have 2 with 'fx' (machita) and/or fiber launchers...and yeah, ya gotta pack them 'big guns' right...

And yeah - table-systems - even our 'mini' ones...http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...1&d=1200645693...just make for a more 'immersive' experience - and for gigs like THIS CONAN ONE WE DID NOT... OK Ok ,I'll stop.. it is safer with 'performers', having 'predictable' beams / mirrors - great thing about beams- they are very 'obedient'! and just plain make for a kickin-lookin' show!

You should enjoy this clip - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJfKvLT1F6w - yeah, it's just a 'spazzy' little demo - NOT A 'REAL' SHOW!! - but that was the point - just a 'quick-n-dirty' with all-in / all-out to show Clients what a multi-system set-ups' potential is - just too bad we could not rent the Continental Arena or HSBC or et al. to show what these can REALLY do! - 'biggest' indoor gig we ever did was in Continental, there, 18K people - a 171 WL RP thru a DMX-controlled waterscreen (x-rented, not ours ), and a center-house SP 2000 WL for FP animes on 2 SL/SR video screens, flown to ~75', and a 5W table-Greenie for beams to truss / stage mirs - out to the house...(sorry, zero pix or video - that was one of those 'nightmare' Clients - story for another time...) - that's where my 'profile pic', there, came from - load-in, 3 all-nighters, load-out, drive home- I had one SMALL glass of 'SoCo', and it was, 'yeah, later, taco'!

Anyhoo, I'm rambling, so I'll shut up now...

PAT - Thanks! coming from you, that's a real compliment, Kaptain! - yeah, the shoeboxes were fun, but we never seemed to gain much more than being able to buy the parts again... I'm gonna try and make time to put up a 'Gallery' before I am out on the road for 8 weeks after the 26th...I'll put up all my 'goodies' / 'scratchbuilds' / prototypes / systems as I find the time... LOVED seeing all the work up there - very cool stuff...

peace..

- J

[mliptack]

How about instead of turrets you use all galvo sets? I mean like a 8 foot table with 20 pairs of 20 or 30k scanners

By the way, while I know there are many ways to do this, but how do you get more than one beam at a time? I'm not entirely familiar with an Ion setup so here is what I assumed happens

Hope my crappy diagram makes some sense... ok the --- is the laser beam each \ is a gm20 or beam splitter (particularly on the first one). The x is a scanhead.

>---\---\---\---\---\---\---\---\---\
|_X

The beam starts on the > And each GM20 would activate one turret... How would you get multiple beams then.

Also just to clarify, Jon, while I agree with your statement below about the whole grating thing not being too big with others... I have to say... I think they're awesome!

By the way, I haven't forgotten about the phone call... I'll PM you in a moment.

-Max

Hey Adam -

Wondering if Clan's box might of been one of these-style (First pic: System was designed by Terry Michaels of Laser Artistry, (now, 'OOB' ) and is his pic as well - a very fine example of 'old-skool' (just teasin, Pat!) craftsmanship!

...And as to the 'rationale' for these types of systems, the rest of the pix are for all of the dpss-shoebox 'nu-skoolers' here
**NOTICE: NOT AN INSULT!!** I've made my share of 'shoeboxes' too, and they're fun!) as a wise-old 'old-skooler' once said to me: ..."this is how it's done, son!"

The advantage multiple-position-projectors give you is the flexibility (with 50/50 splitters) to 'share' and do both beams (which are HIGHLY underappreciated in the PL-arena, in my opinion! ) fx (like machita) and graphics/aerials/atmospherics- at the SAME TIME..
keewwl, eh? - and as the next batch o' pix will show, (along with 'proof' of some of my 'shoebox' werk ) these beam-position systems need-not be GIANT - all depends on the 'size of the wand' you're using to make the magic with...

njoy...

- J

(but sorry, Pats' still wins...)

[dsli_jon]

How about instead of turrets you use all galvo sets? I mean like a 8 foot table with 20 pairs of 20 or 30k scanners

The beam starts on the > And each GM20 would activate one turret... How would you get multiple beams then.

Also just to clarify, Jon, while I agree with your statement below about the whole grating thing not being too big with others... I have to say... I think they're awesome!

By the way, I haven't forgotten about the phone call... I'll PM you in a moment.

Hey Max -

RE: 20-galvo 'beam-table'... well, cause 'Hugo Bunk' has already done that for us! http://youtube.com/watch?v=DSnsTZw80iU

Serious answer is #1 - defeats the purpose of a beam table, #2 - not nearly as 100% accurate as MM-1s for long-throw mirror-bounces, #3 - not nearly as 'flexible' in terms of 'range-of-motion', #4 - would be a NIGHTMARE to keep working perfectly / possible major signal-boost challenges (if you were splitting, etc) - just all around a major headache...#5 - failure-rate - 20 GM20s have much less chance to 'take a dump' on you during a show, than 20 X-Y pairs... guys? more ideas? (I think you get the picture, but COOL idea!!)

RE: multiple beams are achieved via beam-splitting and/or color-separating dichroics (in a WL-sys) - these can be split 2-way (50/50), to 2-positions, 4-way (25/25/25/25) to 4, or other ratios for an 'fx' module - like, ie: 75% to galvos / 25% to a lumia-wheel - to make scans in a cloud (ie: you could make some pretty cool 'space' sims (like those hubble shots over in the other thread ), where you have a lumia doing 'nebula' fx, and your scan head doing starfields, the 'Enterprise' (or X-wing / TIE fighters ), etc...

Somewhere, I've got a cool 'gif' animation showing this concept - I'll dig it up later and post it, but I gotta SLEEEP soon, here...

RE: gratings??? I think you mis-read me, buddy - gratings are WAY-COOL!!!!



..we sometimes use gratings in place of a 3rd scan head, (when 'Ma Budget' says no..) just to make it 'appear' there are more 'points of origin' - I was saying I think BEAMS are underapreciated, here, on PL - this, only judging by how few of the 'nu skoolers' have made or are making/incorporating 'table-based' projectors - even IF using DPSS lasers in their projects..wha..
...what was that, Buffo?...'Boku-bux', you say? ..just teasing...) WELL, last I knew, you could get an 'OEM' (no laser) 8-position, DMX-controlled, 'pretty-decent-for-hi-grade-hobby / lo-grade-Pro' beam-projector, from Co's like http://www.lumalaser.com/ - for like $1500. or so (but don't quote me - that was a few years ago...), and integrate your own DPSS-lasers / scan-head (custom build, yeah, but you guys can do it!!!) and possibly, other fx (machita / lumia, etc) - models with analog actuator-control even support 'fading', so LOTS of COOL stuff you can do, if you don't have the bux to build one of these little babies... http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...1&d=1200645693

RE: call: cool, well, I should be around later today... MUST Sleeeeeeepp...

till then... Zzzzzz....

-J

[ImageLight]

Funny you should mention that steve. I have and soon to be for sale. a teac 48 & a teac 38 8 track reel to reel FM mod/demod with probably 15 preprogrammed shows to music. push one button and sit back with a big splif and watch pink floyd the wall. As far as taking the time to actually put light on the wall, no chance, BTDT and got the t-shirt.
I got the award winning shows from LFI and used them at the DeAnza Planetarium in Cupertino around '90 or so. Me and Floyd use to be good buds.

pat b

Hey Laserman532,

I have a lasershow tape that I bought from Terry Michaels years ago that
runs on the Teac 38-8 and was wondering if it could be transfered to adat. I have a FM Mod/DeMod setup but no 38-8 track to run the tape.
Any Ideas?

Best Regards,

Mark

[Laserman532]

Hey Laserman532,

I have a lasershow tape that I bought from Terry Michaels years ago that
runs on the Teac 38-8 and was wondering if it could be transfered to adat. I have a FM Mod/DeMod setup but no 38-8 track to run the tape.
Any Ideas?

Best Regards,

Mark

not being completely sure. so you have the tape but no tape deck right? My guess is that info can be encoded t adat but i know NOTHING about that system. I didnt think anyone wuold be interested in such old playback technology so i didnt think it had much value. I have a 38 & a 48 that have been in road cases unused for years so not sure of condition of belts and such so what would be your ideas? do you have any disposable cash?

[mliptack]

Hey Max -

RE: 20-galvo 'beam-table'... well, cause 'Hugo Bunk' has already done that for us! http://youtube.com/watch?v=DSnsTZw80iU

heh... ahhh yes

Serious answer is #1 - defeats the purpose of a beam table, #2 - not nearly as 100% accurate as MM-1s for long-throw mirror-bounces, #3 - not nearly as 'flexible' in terms of 'range-of-motion', #4 - would be a NIGHTMARE to keep working perfectly / possible major signal-boost challenges (if you were splitting, etc) - just all around a major headache...#5 - failure-rate - 20 GM20s have much less chance to 'take a dump' on you during a show, than 20 X-Y pairs... guys? more ideas? (I think you get the picture, but COOL idea!!)

Yeah I get it I would think as far as signal splitting for something like that would be a waste, it would be awesome to have all separate control

Yeah I was almost positive the accuracy for bounce mirrors would become the major challenge. And all those scanners would make for one crazy scanner failsafe system!

RE: multiple beams are achieved via beam-splitting and/or color-separating dichroics (in a WL-sys) - these can be split 2-way (50/50), to 2-positions, 4-way (25/25/25/25) to 4, or other ratios for an 'fx' module - like, ie: 75% to galvos / 25% to a lumia-wheel - to make scans in a cloud (ie: you could make some pretty cool 'space' sims (like those hubble shots over in the other thread ), where you have a lumia doing 'nebula' fx, and your scan head doing starfields, the 'Enterprise' (or X-wing / TIE fighters ), etc...

Thats what I figured, but if you use dichros wouldn't you be limited to only that one color per turret?

Somewhere, I've got a cool 'gif' animation showing this concept - I'll dig it up later and post it, but I gotta SLEEEP soon, here...

I look forward to seeing it

RE: gratings??? I think you mis-read me, buddy - gratings are WAY-COOL!!!!

I think you mis-read me! haha, I know you think they're awesome, I was trying to say that there are definitely a few people who appreciate them, me included. It might have not come out that way at 4am!

Thanks for the help.
-max