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Thread: Need Some Advice??

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    2,478

    Default Need Some Advice??

    ok, heres the deal...

    im ALL for healthy competition and being a laser light show company in Connecticut is proving to be both a positive thing and a negative thing-
    im in a little perdicoment. a little DJ guy i know has decided to purchase what seems to be a FAIRLY high powered "chinese" RGB Laser system. he performs at a lot of the local nightclubs and i just saw a video of his system at a club here in CT.
    WOW-
    http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...deoid=27804561
    this thing is just blatantly being scanner right down into the audience. and it looks to me to be at least about a 1/2 WATT.
    how do you suppose i should handle this??

    im thinking-
    send the kid a message. a professional one at first. explain to him that it took me a alot to start my laser business. explain to him that what he is doing is EXTREMELY dangerous and can potentially harm MY business becasue of his stupidity. i am 99.9% positive that this thing is NOT varianced. he just got it, turned it on and started lasing.

    again, this has NOTHING to do with him having a laser. it has EVERYTHING to do with him probably charging $200 to come and plug in an illegal laser system and performing HACKED up, SHITTY, DANGEROUS laser shows!!!

    any comments or suggestions??

    -Marc

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Sheepsville, Wales, UK
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    Default

    Marc

    I know you were going through the variance hoops recently so you are above board and legal - is he likely to care if you point out to him that he is acting in an illegal way? Problem is if you approach him profesionally and he does nothing, is it your duty to protect the public and the credibility of real laserists to report him. If you do and you have already made contact what are the chances of him getting unpleasant?

    Its a tough call for you but if he is clearly breaking the law.....

    Rob
    If you need to ask the question 'whats so good about a laser' - you won't understand the answer.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Laserists do it by the nanometre.

    Stanwax Laser is a Corporate Member of Ilda

    Stanwax Laser main distributor of First Contact in UK - like us on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/FirstContactPolymerCleaner
    www.photoniccleaning.co.uk

  3. #3
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    Jul 2006
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    Connecticut, USA
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    Default

    hey rob-

    thanks for your reply. he DEFINITELY already is aware of the laws and dangers involved with lasers. i actually met him quite a few times at previous laser shows i was performing about a year ago. he came up to me quite a few times and told me how much he loved lasers and how much he wished he could own a high powered one like mine. (the 3W yag). he has probably about 5-8 little 5, 10mW "scorpions" (i think thats what theyre called) green lil laser toys. so he is WELL AWARE of whats involved in doing laser shows. he even asked me once if i had a "Variance" (he knew the terminology) for my yag.

    i think i am going to give him the benefit of the doubt. send him off a letter and see how he responds. if it gets beyond friendly, i will simply report him. im NOT going to play games with some hack job piece of shit who saved up $1500 to buy a piece of crap RGB and go out and blast retinas!!! (DAMN IT....how do i make a mad face!!!!)

  4. #4
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    Jan 2007
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    Sheepsville, Wales, UK
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    Default

    Marc

    I think from what you say this is the only course of action. Especially as you have forked out, waded through the red tape and spent your precious time only for this dumbo to come along and clearly stick two fingers up at you and the laws he obviously knows hes breaking. Failure to act could have knock on effects to ANY laser show varianced or not in your area. This can affect the reputation of pros and not so pros who are all striving to do things by the book.
    Let us know what goes on.

    Rob
    If you need to ask the question 'whats so good about a laser' - you won't understand the answer.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Laserists do it by the nanometre.

    Stanwax Laser is a Corporate Member of Ilda

    Stanwax Laser main distributor of First Contact in UK - like us on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/FirstContactPolymerCleaner
    www.photoniccleaning.co.uk

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Connecticut, USA
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    Default

    This is the letter I am going ot send off to him (E-mail)
    I think i am going to give him 3 days to respond.

    THE LETTER-

    "Hi, this is Marc from Connecticut Lasers.
    I saw the video you posted about your “Seismik” event at Oracle Nightclub. The Laser system you had there and used during your performance is blatantly crowd scanning directly into peoples faces and WELL below the CDRH standard of 3 meters. I know that you are well aware of the dangers involved with high powered Laser systems as we have spoken about them many times at previous events that I was performing at with my Laser systems.
    Please understand, I am all for healthy competition. But you (or anyone else for that matter) going out and purchasing a cheapo foreign RGB Laser system ILLEGALLY to perform ILLEGAL and outright DANGEROUS Laser shows is NOT going to happen in Connecticut where it took me a LONG time to become a legal, varianced and CDRH accessioned APPROVED Laser light show company. I have become quite friendly with local FDA/CDRH enforcing agencies and I will be more than happy to help you acquire the correct Laser product reports, Variance applications, Educational facility testing locations, and insurance information for you to possibly make your imported Laser projector Legal and accessioned in the USA (for my standard consultation fee).
    I have ALREADY been questioned on my pricing and my Laser systems by a nightclub that either you performed at or a nightclub that is aware of your little system. You performing an ILLEGAL laser show with an ILLEGAL laser system for a fraction of what a REAL laser system and REAL laser show should be (approximately $2500) is going to take money out of MY pocket. And I did not BUST MY ASS to be undercut by illegal activities. Sorry!!

    I build my laser systems from scratch. I don’t just save up $1500 (or whatever) to purchase some foreign piece of garbage RGB system. I have ALL of my laser systems varianced and accessioned properly by the FDA/CDRH. That is the LAW. I don’t do it because I like it. I do it because I own a laser and a laser light show company and I need to FOLLOW THE LAW. If you want to perform illegal laser shows in your own house where the safety of your own friends is of no importance to you, that is your prerogative. But once that system leaves your house and is turned on ANYWHERE in public, it now is a danger to people who may have NO idea that they are being exposed to hazardous levels of radiation. (Remember, all it takes is approx 5 milliwatts of laser light to cause blindness under proper conditions.)
    PROFESSIONAL Laserists NEVER put ANY of their crowd at risk. NEVER! That is a part of being a responsible Laser performer. Please realize, until you provide SIGNIFIGANT proof that you hold-
    1. An FDA/CDRH approved product report for your laser projector
    2. An approved Laser Light show report for your Laser system(s)
    3. An approved Laser Light show Variance (for ANY laser system above 5mW used in public)
    4. Proper educational and safety standards practices …
    You are performing ILLEGAL Laser light shows (where fines are in excess of $10,000 PLUS confiscation of equipment PER offense!!) I have to follow the rules. I have to remain safe. I have to get all of my licensing. Why don’t you?? Myself along with ALL other laserists suffer IMMENSELY because of decisions and acts of illegal laserists nationwide. It has a direct backlash on myself and EVERY OTHER LASERIST out there. The laws are in place for a reason.
    Until you provide the above aforementioned PROOF that you, your shows and your systems are FDA/CDRH varianced and certified (and being performed safely) you are in violation of MANY NATIONAL laws and I CAN and WILL report you to the CDRH. As would ANY other Laserist who may become aware of your shows.
    I know you may think I am being an A**hole. And for that I DO apologize. But Lasers are my career and my livelihood. This is what puts food in my families mouth. What YOU do, affects me! As it already has.
    I will give you a few days to respond. If you need help or suggestions on how to get started in properly performing Laser shows I will be more than happy to consult with you for my standard rates and allow you the opportunity to become PROPERLY and LEGALLY licensed to perform ANY and ALL shows you want.
    -Marc
    Connecticut Lasers
    info@ctlasers.com"

    Any suggestions or anything i should add or take out??

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Central Florida
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    7,067

    Lightbulb

    Hey Marc. I think it is great you are so responsable, but your soft skills may need a little help based on your letter below. I completly understand, but he make take too much offence to take you seriously. I would save the letter below for a response to him IF he blows you off the first time. If you havn't seen his system up close and KNOW it is not legal, you can't really call him out like that and not expect him to get defensive. I would, but my projetor is made in the USA... from Chinese parts... I would tone this email down a little but ream him with the parts you take out if he gets shitty back with you. He may be ignorant to a degree and think you are just bashing him and then he will care less about what you mean. WE are all on the same page as you, and definatly give you a ...
    Love, peace, and grease,

    allthat... aka: aaron@pangolin

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
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    Default

    "allthatwhichis" (what is your name anyway? lol...thats too long to type...)-

    i sincerely appreciate your input. i am BY NO MEANS a great letter writer (can ya tell??). i tend to go ff on tangents and try to type exactly what im thinking. i did not send this letter yet, as i am waiting to get some feedback from you guys (and girls). this kid just REALLY pissed me off. ESPECIALLY knowing that he DAMN WELL knows the laws and safety aspects involved with lasers.

    i would be alittle more understanding if it was just some "Joe Yahoo" who had daddys credit card and purchased some $1200 piece of poop RGB projector. but this kid came up to me at at least 3 prior shows i did and threw MANY terms out at me which provides evidence that he knows lasers (even a little bit to know the laws involved).

    i will tone this letter down quite a bit. like i said, i want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but i also want him to know that im NOT messin around about reporting him if i know he does a sinlge other illegal, unvarianced, unsafe show.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Toronto Canada
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    Default

    I have to agree. Attacking people is not a way of guru. Real professional have to be a teacher and not a dictator. Give him an advise and see the reaction. As far as video it isn't that bad. I've seen much worst. At least he is scanning. I understand about competition. But did you ever try to talk to this guy in real life. See whats he is got. Show what you got. Maybe you can form an alliance. People will usually not listen to some Joe Blow.

    ../Devil --advocate --mode-on
    If I received this letter. My reply would be a 2 magic words. First starts @ F and second @ Y. For me you will be just a desperate guy who want to kill a competition.
    ./Devil --advocate --mode-off
    I hired an Italian guy to do my wires. Now they look like spaghetti!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Toronto Canada
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gottaluvlasers View Post
    i would be alittle more understanding if it was just some "Joe Yahoo" who had daddys credit card and purchased some $1200 piece of poop RGB projector. but this kid came up to me at at least 3 prior shows i did and threw MANY terms out at me which provides evidence that he knows lasers (even a little bit to know the laws involved).
    Unfortunately in this situation you have to have much better system to dictate what is right and what is wrong. I can across the same thing many times before. Few times I had to fire all my lasers....One time I have to clean dust from my 5W Spectra Physics Ar-Kr to get my point across. And only then they start listening.
    I hired an Italian guy to do my wires. Now they look like spaghetti!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
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    Default

    lol-

    DR Laser. i am ALL for healthy competition and i agree with you 100% that my letter was a little too "attacking." If he has a variance and starts doing shows...honestly, i would LOVE it. im gettin a lil too old to be luggin around Laser equipment in and out of clubs at 3-4AM. i would MUCH RATHER be building the systems or doing more "professional" type shows.

    this is revision 2-

    sound better??

    "Hey, this is Marc from Connecticut Lasers.
    I saw the video you posted about your “Seismik” event you did at Oracle with your new Laser system. While I appreciate and applaud your efforts to separate yourself from the rest of the DJ “Pack” by offering your clubs Lasers, I MUST express my concern and make you aware of the fact that many laws are being broken when you turn that laser system on! Not to mention the “crowd scanning” you are performing with SERIOUS amounts of laser power would land you a MINIMUM of a $10,000 fine if ANYONE from the FDA/CDRH found out! (AND loss of equipment!)
    The video you posted is an EXTREME and blatant disregard for people’s safety. The laser you are operating I am quite sure is at a bare minimum 300mW. By the looks of the saturation in the video that was shot, I am guessing more along the lines of around 500mW or more! At that powers, a direct hit to someone’s eyes could result in SERIOUS injury and/or blindness in about a microsecond. (Faster than the human eye can blink!).
    In a nightclub it is even EASIER to be injured because the human eye is already opened wider by nature because it is a darker environment. The eye is trying to force itself to let more light into it. Therefore, even LESS laser light is needed to cause SERIOUS damage VERY rapidly!

    I know you’re a good guy. Which is why I wanted to confront you first on a professional level BEFORE the FDA/CDRH got involved. If you need help or consulting on how to LEGALLY operate your laser system I would be more than happy to sit down with you and go over the licensing and variancing procedure. I would be willing to give you a little bit of a discount on my standard Variance consultation fees because I know you.
    Please understand, I’m not trying to just be some prick who’s out to give you problems or anything. But as a LICENSED and NATIONALLY varianced Laser Light Show company, I am obligated under law to report ANY and ALL unsafe Laser practices that I am aware of. If I do not, I could lose MY license! And being the only licensed laser guy in CT. EVER- wouldn’t be too hard for the FDA/CDRH to come after because of practices of “rogue and illegal” Laser guys!

    If you already have your product reports, variance applications, Laser light show reports, accession numbers, insurance information and annual reports filed and APPROVED with the CDRH, please provide me that information. As I have ALREADY received a concerned phone call from another laser light show company regarding your video thinking it was MY company! I told that company NOT TO REPORT THE VIDEO yet as I will try to approach the situation myself and see if I can rectify the issues. But I must tell you, PLEASE do not perform another show with that Laser system until that system AND you are LEGALLY able to!

    I honestly hope you understand the seriousness of this situation. I will be obligated to report ANY and ALL illegal Laser activities to the FDA/CDRH.

    If you have any questions at all, feel free to let me know. Like I said, I am willing to help you do it the RIGHT WAY!"


    a little better???

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