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Thread: Need Some Advice??

  1. #21
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    yeah, i noticed that afterwards too. my bad!

  2. #22
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    TBH I have the same problem here in the uk all the time ( (not just with lasers but cheap guys no insurance, no rigging skills etc playing lasers and letting of pyros etc) I would approach it by educating the venue into their responsibilities. If you approach him directly, he is just likely to say bollocks and just carry on!

    One of the best moves I ever did is help rewrite one venues hire contract. Now every lighting and PA guy has to show insurance when the venue is booked. It didn`t stop the problem, but at least they all went out and purchased some sort of insurance (and pyros stopped overnight, unless I do them )

  3. #23
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    After looking at the video, I'd say it's impossible to tell how powerful the laser is, the room's dark and smoky and there's no way to tell how sensitive the camera is. To me, this looks like a DJ-style RG projector, which are usually around 80mW green and 180mW red, not dangerous if operating normally but not good if the scanner mechanism fails as they don't usually have safety shutters. This sort of thing...
    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PURE-LIGHT-TRI...QQcmdZViewItem
    However, the only way to tell is to inspect the projector itself and see what the labelling is. Once you've done that, I'd avoid confrontation, if you're totally sure it's illegal then tell the venue.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenalien View Post

    ... this looks like a DJ-style RG projector, which are usually around 80mW green and 180mW red

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PURE-LIGHT-TRI...QQcmdZViewItem


    ...However, the only way to tell is to inspect the projector itself and see what the labelling is. Once you've done that, I'd avoid confrontation, if you're totally sure it's illegal then tell the venue...

    Now, I'm not a professional by any means, but I seem to remember reading that anything over 5mw here needed a variance.
    also, 260mw is still one hell of alot of power, esp. at that range, and is not something I'd shine into a crowd.
    "TO DO IS TO BE" - Nietzsche
    "TO BE IS TO DO" - Kant
    "DO BE DO BE DO" - Sinatra

  5. #25
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    Before I report someone I would be damn sure that someone actions will cuz harm. I will be sure that I exhausted all other ways to reason. I pass the case trough my internal committee. Ask people in trade for advice and only then after all other leads are dead I'll do some serious moves. Reporting someone is what people did under Hitler/Stalin regime. Most of it was because they want those people dead/in camps/wanted their jobs/their flats and etc. Like I said before you have to be a professional the teacher and guru. I've never had a problem with people in Entertainment business. If I see a issue concerning safety I would first talk to the person responsible and offer my views and ways to solve the problem. Guess what.. all the time issues were solved on the spot. Also If someone comes to me with the issue I do the same. But If you see the issue and first thing you do is call police or some Health and Safety. Sorry I have nothing against if someone takes you behind the building and kicks the shit out of you. Especially if you're the type who just want to kill competition.


    I really respect the fact that gottaluvlasers brought the issue to our attention before going forward.
    I hired an Italian guy to do my wires. Now they look like spaghetti!

  6. #26
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    Cool

    OK - finally saw the video in question. And yeah, it was pretty bad.

    I agree that Mark did the right think by coming to us first. It's always better to try the carrot approach before you reach for the stick. However, I disagree with the attitude that there's never a need to contact the authorities.

    In this specific case, while we don't know EXACTLY how much power the projector is producing, it is CLEARLY greater than 5 mw. And that's all that matters for a laser show here in the US. If you are above 5 mw, you need a variance, and you *don't* send beams into the audience. (Well, OK - if you jump through a million hoops to get an audience-scanning variance, then you can do that, but I seriously doubt that this guy has the resources or the hardware to accomplish that.)

    The show in that YouTube video is illegal here in the US - pure and simple. Not only that, but it's illegal and *reckless*, because of the audience scanning without the proper safety controls. Based on those two facts alone, it would be appropriate to turn the guy in. (Remember, this isn't the UK, where you can get away with audience scanning. This is the US, where you can successfully sue Marlboro because the cigarettes they sold you gave you lung cancer - despite the fact that the warning label on the box already told you that you would get cancer from smoking them...)

    Sure, it would be better to just talk to the guy, and maybe he'll come around. But it's not cool to continue doing shows like that. It puts the patrons at risk, and it hurts the rest of the industry when you have a loose cannon like that running around. (Why do you think our laws are so strict to begin with?)

    Mark - I would talk to the guy, man to man, and see what he's got to say. Maybe even point him to PhotonLexicon. See if you can win him over. But if he gets defensive and blows you off, I wouldn't see anything wrong with reporting him.

    Adam

    PS: I think it's important to emphasize the distinction here: I'm not advocating calling the authorities on the guy because he lacks insurance, or because he lacks a variance. Those items are his business. I have a problem with him performing audience scanning during a commercial show without the proper safeguards. That sort of behavior has repercussions that reach far beyond his little side job as a laser DJ.

    If he were to conform to the CDRH rules for laser shows (basically the 3 meter rule, plus a shutter, plus an all-scram switch) I wouldn't bother him at all, apart from perhaps ASKING him if he had a variance and maybe offering to help him get one. And if he blew me off then, I'd simply ignore him.

  7. #27
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    gentlemen-

    i am going to very professionally just talk to him at his next show. like i said, i am pretty sure this is a weekly event, so i will just show up. he has always seemed to be a cool guy, so i honestly dont see any confrontation at all.

    my main concern also was the unsafe scanning of his show. if he never gets a variance in his life, that is HIS perogative. i DONT agree with it, i stand behind that, BUT- at least he is performing safe shows! he is by no means (and im not saying this in an arrogant manner) any competition for me. there arent too many professional type "Laser Light Shows" a 200-500mW (or whatever it is) RGY automatic laser projector can get hired for.

    DR laser-
    i respect your standpoint on not just "rattin the guy out!" i took that to heart and am NOT going to do such. however, after i meet with him and go over everything, if he just blows it all off, and continues to be reckless and endangering, than i WILL take it the next step. (although i dont see that happening)

    i am HOPING that he tries to become legit. i would much rather see him do this the right way and get varianced so that he can see what is actually involved in laser shows and their preparations. this may open his eyes and see why laser shows are much more valuable than (sit down guys this is what i just found out...) $150. (thats what he charged for the night on top of his DJ'ing!!)

    my MAIN concern is peforming safely! taking a laser and AIMING it down into a crowd cuz it looks cool just is NOT acceptable in my eyes (no pun intended). that is what i am going to stress with him.
    the licensing aspect will be secondary. and i will never bring it up to him again as long as i know he is being safe. i think sooner or later that will come and bite him (or anyone) in the ass anyway.

  8. #28
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    Default UPDATE-

    heres an update.

    i talked to him saturday. good kid. was VERY responsive and apologetic (which i told him wasnt neccessary) and was very inquisitive on the procedures to become licensed. i told him to call me during the week and we'd grab a beer or something and i would sit down with him and go over some paperwork.

    just a quick excerpt from an email he sent me-

    "I was really excited when i got the new laser and didnt have time to program the beam so that it doesnt go into the crowd

    very bad and it wont happen again....

    ...HEY THANX AGAIN FOR LOOKING OUT FOR ME

    I'LL BE MORE CAREFUL NEXT TIME AND WILL GET THE PROPER PAPER WORK NOT FOR FDA SAKE BUT FOR ME SAKE

    SOMEONE COULD SUE MY ASS

    THANX AGAIN..."

    --so unless hes just BS'ing (which im sure he isnt) i think he'll curb his dangerous shows. i still honestly dont think he can get the projector varianced though. he bought it from "NFI." anyone ever hear of them??

    so i think this turned out MUCH better the "diplomatic" way!! thanks guys for the advice.

    -Marc

  9. #29
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    Thumbs up

    That's cool. If he is sincere, he may turn out to be very good competition for you. Turning him on to the forum could have two different affects. All the good info could make him successfukl, or he could get hooked and go bankrupt from buying too many lasers... It is good he took the aditude he did, but probably would not have had you not approached him in a positive manner.

  10. #30
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    Im glad the guy responded the way he did, he seems like a good guy. Kudos on your handling of the issue, it certainly could have been less than pretty.

    did you tell him about the forums? it sounds like he's the kind who would could learn a lot from this place, and, indeed he may have some things to share as well.
    "TO DO IS TO BE" - Nietzsche
    "TO BE IS TO DO" - Kant
    "DO BE DO BE DO" - Sinatra

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