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Thread: ILDA test frame output from my Silverray RGB?

  1. #1
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    Default ILDA test frame output from my Silverray RGB?

    Can someone cast an eye over these pictures of my supposed 45K scan set in my Silverray RGB projector showing the ILDA test frame please as things just don't add up. This was supposed to be a 45K scan set @ 5 degrees - It can't even cope with 30Kpps scan rate without bad frame distortion!

    I have took pictures of the pattern projected onto a white surface 5m away from the projector aperture.

    From left to right starting at the top:

    15Kpps
    30Kpps
    42Kpps

    15Kpps
    30Kpps

    Mamba Black SW with the Medilas USB DAC

    Thanks
    Last edited by smogthemog; 02-14-2009 at 13:27.
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  2. #2
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    Default

    well first off Jim the red divergence is nowhere near the others - which is not a disaster as long as the optics are adjustable, but also the lasers are not well aligned as you can see the outer square edge nearest to the camera shows the blue a fair way out over the red and green - even allowing for the fact that the red is fatter in one plane than the other I doubt the blue would fall into the red if it were rotated thru 90 degrees. Odd thisg is that the last 2 images of the lasermedia TP look better aligned - why? Any idea?
    How far away from the scanner head are these being projected? You can expect the red to be fat really close to the projector but once you get a reasonable useable distance away then the red should be a similar size to the other beams. The red looks like its the camera has moved its so fat and blury but this is obviously not the case as the other colours are sharp.

    Scan angle would be good so we can get a true image of how these look. On Mamba you will need to pull the output size down quite a bit to get low angles go into the UGC settings for geo and take the scale down. If you dont know how to gauge the angles there is a chart here....http://www.pangolin.com/userhelp/scanangles.htm

    Pick the angle from the chart, work out the size of the outer square at the distance you are setup and you will then be able to change the scale to make the square the right size.

    edit oops I just read its 5M away - so what is the square size? and dont say one fridge door wide

    Measure or set the angle (and take more piccies) and let us know as the images shown can only be taken in context when we know the angles

    Rob
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  3. #3
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    Lightbulb

    I agree, that looks like sheiot... Looks like you got a 15K set up there. Definatly need a tuning if they are supposed to be 45K scanners.
    Love, peace, and grease,

    allthat... aka: aaron@pangolin

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    Jim

    At 5M from the pango chart the square should be 14x5 = 70cm for 8 degrees. So if your images were near or lower than thet then ther TPs are poor. Let us know.

    Rob

    PS at 5m that red should be as tight as the others.
    If you need to ask the question 'whats so good about a laser' - you won't understand the answer.
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  5. #5
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    Red divergance is a big problem with this unit Rob, I loose so much either side of the galvo mirrors as it's rediculous. That is the best I can get the red at any distance. It's a bad LD as far as I can see. I will take some pictures of it inside the case, close up later and you will see what I mean by a 'large' collimating lens!
    The Lasermedia TP where taken a while after the others after a bit of galvo mount tweeking. Don't forget the crappy Galvo mounts this thing has in it Rob, they really are poo! I have ordered a full set of new 3 axis mounts and Dichro's for it (Mliptack GB) in the hope of upping the quality a little. The ILDA TP was shot when the colours where not set up and this is how it arrived from Alex hence all these posts - it's just aweful!

    PS - still no reply from him

    Ok, the distance between the projector and the fridge is 5m. The images you see projected are 47cm square. That equates to aproximately 9.5 degrees? Agreed ? I am crap at maths

    If that is the case then these scanners surely are shocking!

    More internal pics to follow and again, thanks for all your help everyone especially Rob.

    Jim
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  6. #6
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    Jim
    if you are at 5M then the angle can be looked up on the chart from twice the tangent of ... 0.47 (47cm) divided by twice the distance (2x5=10). so the tangent that is closest to

    2 x tan (0.47/(2x5)

    which gives 2x tan (0.47/10)

    2x tan 0.047

    which gives 2 x 0.04703 = 0.09406

    if we look that up on the table - or the nearest one in the tangents column we get around about 5.5 degrees.

    which means thay are worse than you thought!

    Ok now I know the angle I will make a comment on the patterns

    15k - as with all the images the 'wobble' on the lines both vertical and horizontal are not good and indicate noise on the signals in or just a poor driver circuit that cant maintain a straight line. The circle is not round but that will be a function of the speed being low though I would expect to see less squareness to it than that at these speeds.

    30k - the circle just cannot keep up, the scanners cant keep the circle round they are running too fast for this state of tune. There is evidence of overshoot appearing on the corners of the inner square. The 2 rows of dots below the square/circle are not dots but this is due to the blanking shift setting in mamba (settings>output settings) - you need to adjust that but if you do and cant get them to be dots by this adjustment then the scanners cant stop on a point & maintain it. The shift will also supress the 'wild tail' at the top of the circle to some degree.

    42k - the outer square corners are starting to round - again adjusting a setting in mamba may improve this go into the same setting where the shift adjust is and adjust the corner repeat. This may get this sharper but again if you cant then its a tuning/performance issue. again the overshoot in the inner circle is evident though not that much different to the previous image. As for the circle - well you dont need anyone to tell you it anit very circular!

    LM 15k - looking good outer lines look straighter but still have some 'wobble' the rest isnt too bad - if it would do that at 30k I would say you should be happy.

    LM 30k - Yuk the scanner performance just is not up to this speed let alone being able to go up another 15k!

    The scanners themselves or the driver and its tune up are good (ish) for 15k but never 3 times that. You will improve im sure if you can identify what to adjust on the drivers but only if they have something like the performance capability that they are quoted for. If a car salesman sells you a car saying that it will do 140mph you will never acheive this if he sells you a mini metro, and you can try from now till judgement day and that poor little metro wont ever get there.
    Looking at the Silverray website I get the impression this company does laser shows in some shape or form. If that is the case, either he should know better that what he is selling is not up to the job or if he truly thinks this is acceptable his shows must be kak.

    Rob
    If you need to ask the question 'whats so good about a laser' - you won't understand the answer.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    Stanwax Laser is a Corporate Member of Ilda

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  7. #7
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    soforene is offline The Troll formerly known as Herbert Von Poople-Futtocks
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    Default

    I love this place !

    Whilst SilverRay may have been content to sell their lasers to the Mobile DJ crowd who care little for beam divergence and the actual speed of the scanners installed, I'm pretty sure they have rarely encountered such a knowledgeable group of laser enthusiasts as those who frequent this forum.

    The lack of response to Jim's email queries regarding his purchase combined with SilverRay’s conspicuous absence of a follow up from their single post advertising their wares is making me just a tad uneasy about buying anything from them in the future.

    Not too late to make a comeback of course (and it would make good business sense as people googling for an opinion on SilverRay's products and customer care would surely find this forum).

    Fingers crossed that there's a happy outcome.

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    Smile

    Say Jim;

    Before you toss those scanners, you might want to try re-tuning them. The "squared-circle" effect at 15Kpps is to be expected, since that's actually what is being output to the scanners. (12 points in a polygonal arrangement) That's not really a sign of anything wrong; if the scanners were tuned fast, they will show a 12-sided polygon at slower scanner speeds.

    The 30K and 42K pictures show that your amps don't have enough gain. That could be because you're maxed out (which would suck), but it could also mean that you just need to retune and increase the servo gain. Likewise, some of the wavering in the pattern suggests that a little more damping may be needed.

    Have you tried re-tuning these scanners at all? (Do you have a manual that tells you what the pots on the scanner amp are for?) My guess is that they tuned these scanners at a very high scan rate but a super narrow scan angle before they left the factory. This is a really dumb practice for a lot of reasons, but it's way more common than you might think. (People forget that faster isn't always better.) So if you re-tune at 30K, you might see a marked improvement.

    I'd at least give that a try first, before you write them off as trash. (Though I agree with others here that someone from SilverRay ought to be stepping in about now to see what's going on...)

    Adam

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    Thank you Rob, Soforene (sorry, don't know your first name ) and Adam.

    I will take some pictures this evening of the internals in an attempt of trying to identify what type of scan set they are. From memory, It has a single amp board with what looks to be 2 separate sides to it (X&Y) with a separated centrally, row of around 18 pots at the top. Unfortunately no identification whatsoever on these pots and so far no identification of what make of board either.
    If I can identify the pots then I will deffo give tuning a go.
    I may well post pics of the scan amp board and someone will say they are definetly 15K scanners - that is what I am expecting anyway.

    Been looking at Laserworld's 50K scan set in a possible total replace and then put these scanners out of the Silverray into my little ALC60? Just a thought

    Rob - is it correct that these CNI TTL diode PSU's can be modded to analog?
    Any documentation anywhere on this at all?


    And here's me thinking computers where a pain in the harris

    Thanks people - it's all a big learning curve here but I am getting there slowly.
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    Continuously in Awe! of (H)Al, the Photonlexicon Font of Complete Knowledge - The (H)Al'PL Database of complete puss that no one needs to know or ever trusts as he ain't really got a Scooby doo about now't!

  10. #10
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    Default Very Dissapointing!

    Quote Originally Posted by smogthemog View Post
    Thanks people - it's all a big learning curve here but I am getting there slowly.
    Hi Jim
    Your right about the learning curve in more ways than one.
    Im dissapointed FOR YOU, Dissapointed in the quality and set up of the SILVERRAY PRODUCT, Dissapointed in the comms and after sales support from Alex, so far none existant and dissapointed THAT I WONT BE BUYING ONE... as I HAD contemplated.
    Im a newbie too and probably like you Jim wanted a ready made , reasonable quality system, that would enable me to ENJOY the product and learn as you go....It looks like you've been thrown in AT THE DEEP END.
    So enjoyment is low and frustration probably growing daily....Not GOOD then. I guess we all want to learn to improve what we know to enjoy Lasering.....
    It's clear YOU will get LOADS of help of the guys on this FORUM
    and YOU will get no help of Alex at Silverray. VERY DISSAPOINTING.

    Kev
    Move toward the light!

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