Pango LA Freak vs Mamba Black

[JimBo]

Hi Norty, glad to see you over here (JimBoylan on the DJ forums).
Mamba Black has the music time line feature where you can load the MP3 that you are doing the show to and make sure the effects happen at the right tim, you can also go to any point in the MP3 and it will still be synced.
As you know I got rid of my MB and joined the Pango club, the Pango hardware is far better, smoother and vibrant than the MB kit.
I am waiting for my FB3 Evaluation kit, unfortunately Pango are still waiting for the boards from their manufacturer (they have been held up at customs). Hayden as told me I should get mine sometime next week.

I would advise going for the FB3 though, as music sync isn't as important in beam shows as it is in graphics.

Jim

[norty303]

Hi Jim, yep, spotted you over here a while ago

I ordered my FB3 eval kit yesterday and got an invoice today which has 4th March as the shipping date, so i'm assuming thats when your will go out too if they're waiting for an order to come in. That'll be 2 very excited people waiting for it to arrive.

I'm tempted to go out shopping for an enclosure for it in advance but knowing my luck it'll be slightly wrong without the actual item with me, so it'll have to wait (unless anyone has already done it and can recommend a good enclosure? No big ply boxes filled with poly bits tho )

[Banthai]

well actually norty ....


for the ideal enclosure
I reccomend and old Egg carton filled with bananna skins






i blame it on the wine this evening

[JimBo]

well actually norty ....


for the ideal enclosure
I reccomend and old Egg carton filled with bananna skins






i blame it on the wine this evening

Karl do you mean the recycled cardboard ones or the plastic ones?

Jim

[Pangolin]

Hi Guys,

I think there is some misinformation (or rather, lack of information) about the whole topic of "Music Synchronization" with LAStudio. I am pretty sure that, music-wise, LAStudio can do everything that Showtime can, but LAStudio is Alexey's baby, so I will see if I can get some comments from him.

One thing that can be done with LAStudio (and not with Showtime or any other product as far as I know). You can run music through an FFT which will automatically identify the beats and then place "logs" onto the timeline. I don't know the procedure of how to do that, but I will see if I can get some clarification from Alexey on this, and then make a post.

Best regards,

William Benner

[tocket]

Showrider has FFT? That's news to me, as I never got any beat detection to work. Would be very cool if there was a 'snap to beat' feature for placing stuff on the timeline.

[Pangolin]

Hi Guys,

OK, I spoke to Alexey about this, and got the following answers. His text is below in RED. And when Alexey talks about "SR" he means "Show rider", which is the timeline portion of LAStudio.


Music is done in the Timeline section of SR. There are two native methods to use music -- one for CD and a second for audio files. There is also a third method - WinAmp. In total, SR can take "time information" from 4 places - PC Timer, CD, AudioFile, and WinAmp. So, if we talk about music synchronization.... it is there.

There is no separate MediaPlayer window in SR. There is Show Properties window, and there a MaxBox with a "Media" section. It allows you to define the source and there are also Play/Stop buttons so you can review the media you selected. But on practice - SR will control audio source by Play/Stop on main toolbar, So one single control does it all...


Regarding "scrubbing" or as Showtime calls it, "Laser Scroll", whereby you can move the time slider and instantly hear the music playing while you are building a show: This is an optional thing. In the past, I always used CDs for music, and I always hated it when the CD player delayed the reaction of SR. This happens with some media files as well. So, I made a button called "Drag media in Edit mode" on main toolbar and has Speaker looking icon. It should be easy to notice...

I just made a test with my early copy of SR. I made the button with speaker "enabled". In the Show Properties window, I defined "Media Player" and then I selected an MP3 file. Perhaps you all know that Right button on timeline works as "show position / cursor" control. So I press right button and hear that SR starts playing from this position. When you release the button the music will stop. When I scroll, audio scrolls too. I think this is close to Showtime.

-----------------------------

Regarding FFT automatic beat detection, this is very close to the way it works with LivePRO. See, there is a WinAmp plugin, that is used in some cases. And there is a "Spectra" application. Both doing the same - capture buffers, and put them into FFT, and then generate beats that are delivered into a client-application over "mapping". That is how it works in LivePRO. Now, if the timeline is in PLAY mode and "Environment -> External Beat Recording" menu is set, there will appear an extra dialog box with information what to do.

In total, the idea is this: The Show has an audio file. We go to PLAY mode and this automatically creates audio playback. The audio-analyzer will capture data and geneate beats. SR sees the beats and creates log-markers at each relevant time.

There is one trick that has to be done. The code works with the "Audio In" device in Windows. So if you tune the Windows "Mixer' correctly (define the right settings in Recording option) then this will allow the capture of the currently-playing audio file. Also, the FFT section requires adjusting of "volume" sliders that works as a gate value with the specified frequency range.

SR even has window for FFT - menu "Environment - Spectra Analyzer". So, there are internal tools and external tools.

My personal feeling about this is that adjusting the gate values for the FFT requires some trial and error. Sometimes the BASS of the music does not correspond to the "right" moment, and there are double beats, or tricky beats. The process to adjust this takes time, and for me it was always easier to manually enter the logs during playback than it ever was for me to tune this system and get the expected results. So, this is a cool looking feature, but in practice I would preffer enter the logs manually.

----------------------------------------------------------

OK, one person asked about snap to beats. SR doe not have this. There are "LOGs" (Ctrl-L) or double click on lower side of time-gauge. Log may snap to itself events that +/- 2 pixels and move them. I used logs all the time. They are pretty handly, like a guide-lines in Corel. So, I recommend people to get familar with logs, because they can really speed up show design.





Best regards,

William Benner

[JimBo]

Please thank Alexey for the information Bill, I am sure lots of users will be pleased with it.

I just need to wait for my package so I can have a play too.

Jim

[Pangolin]

Hi Jimbo,

We have FB3 systems in stock again (sometimes we run out). If you have already placed an order, send me a ping by email and we will get it out to you. Sometimes things slip through the cracks...

Bill

[norty303]

Just gotta say, the service from Pangolin has been outstanding! Ordered on 4th, DHL package shows the 5th on the ticket, arrived today!

Just been to Maplin to buy the project box, look forward to getting cracking on putting it together so i can use it (am desperately going to resist plugging it all up as a bare board as i just know some unfortunate accident will befall it!)