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Thread: 100mW vs 300mW

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by norty303
    The other thing i noticed is that there is a sticker on the base saying 'Class I laser product' rather than Class 3b as i'd have expected.

    My projector also had the same sticker. I removed it.

    The thing is - you can have a very high power Class IV device operating at hundreds of watts, safely contained, interlocked, shielded etc. from operators and label it as a Class I device. Defeat the interlocks, open it up, expose the beam and it is no longer a Class I device. Our imported projectors should never be labeled with a Class I sticker.


    I don't know why they do it, but they do.

  2. #12
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    From the pictures they are both 100mw. The left on bottom picture appears brighter because of size difference.!
    I hired an Italian guy to do my wires. Now they look like spaghetti!

  3. #13
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    Sounds like you've got a couple issues with your unit there, Norty. Sorry to hear it. How much will it cost to send it back for repair? Might be better than trying to do it yourself. (Tuning the galvos shouldn't void your warranty, but replacing the keyswitch might. Ask them about it before you attempt the repair yourself.)
    The projector only arrived yesterday, there's no way I'm gong to try to repair it. It has a 24 month warranty so it'll get sent back to Germany, at their expense. I've requested in an email that they replace the unit rather than repair that one as I'm not convinced it's running at >300mW. I may get one with properly tuned scanners then as well.

    As i said, I have to open the case to get at the scaner drivers to tune them, and according to the sticker that will void the warranty, so it'll go back to them just for that.

    I'm not adverse to getting stuck in, in fact i enjoy it, but I do believe that products should at least be fit for purpose - which I'm not sure this particular example is. However, as i said, i'm willing to try a different unit to see if i've just been unlucky.

  4. #14
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    Keep us informed - I would like to know how everything turns out.

    -Max

  5. #15
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    I've had an email response from Laserworld which confirmed that they have IR filters on all their lasers, and that their power ratings are measured without IR. This is very re-assuring and ties up with all the other good feedback about Laserworld.

    They pointed out that the visible difference between 100mW and 300mW was not going to be great and that you start to require ever increasing power to show significant visible difference. I'm aware of this but had expected at least some difference. However, at this point any sense of difference is purely subjective, so i will refrain from commenting until i know a bit more, or have tried them out back to back in a smoky room as buffo suggested.

    They also questioned why a 'laser professional' such as myself would buy a cheap laser with an economy scan set and expect a perfect test pattern. I did clarify that i wasn't looking for perfect, but felt that they could be set up better, as the other ones in my photo were a 15kpps eco scanset. They explained that they set up their scanners with the TOP test pattern at 20deg which might explain why the ILDA circle is outside of square but doesn't really explain the overshoot.

    Thay have said that they will check the scanners and the problem with the keyswitch when i return it to them. They did also suggest that one of their Revolution series may well suit me better, which may be another course of action, and something i may well discuss further with them.

    I'll try to keep you updated as this progresses. I must say that i was impressed with getting a response on a Sunday, and the service from them has been great thus far.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by norty303 View Post
    They also questioned why a 'laser professional' such as myself would buy a cheap laser with an economy scan set and expect a perfect test pattern.
    This is a cop out! Call them on it. A set of 15K scanners can still be tuned to display the ILDA test pattern correctly. Sure, it will flicker like hell at 15Kpps, but that doesn't have anything to do with the tuning!

    If you've got overshoots, your scanners are out of tune. Period. And it doesn't matter if they're 15 K units or 60 K units. All scanners should be able to display that pattern correctly. (See the review I posted of the ScanEco20 galvos from LaserShowParts.com... I got the test pattern dialed in just fine on those!)
    They explained that they set up their scanners with the TOP test pattern at 20deg
    Then they didn't tune them right. Period. If I were you, I'd insist that they use the ILDA test pattern, and I'd double-check their performance by loading up the laser media test pattern as well.
    They did also suggest that one of their Revolution series may well suit me better
    They may have a point here. If your primary focus is going to be graphics, then you'd be better served with a faster pair of scanners. But that's no excuse for them to ignore the tuning on the cheaper scanners. They should still be dialed in the same way.
    I must say that i was impressed with getting a response on a Sunday, and the service from them has been great thus far.
    Well, that's one point in their favor. Perhaps they're not used to selling their less-expensive projectors to informed hobbyists like yourself and they were just backpedaling like crazy when you pointed out their mistakes. But they need to fix it. Just because it's not their most expensive projector doesn't mean it's OK to have a broken keyswitch, or to send it out with lousy tuning. Don't let them off the hook!

    Adam

  7. #17
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    Perhaps they're not used to selling their less-expensive projectors to informed hobbyists like yourself and they were just backpedaling like crazy when you pointed out their mistakes.
    I get the impression that most of the cheaper projectors they sell may never even see the end of an ILDA connector, they'll simply be run standalone or via DMX, hence its unlikely any issues like this get spotted.


    As for the 'pro' product, if i needed 30k scanners, i'd buy 30k scanners. As it is, i can get all the performance for beam shows that i require out of 15k scanners, so why pay more. In this instance i'd decided to spend the extra budget on something i did require, a higher power laser module.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by norty303 View Post
    I've had an email response from Laserworld which confirmed that they have IR filters on all their lasers, and that their power ratings are measured without IR. This is very re-assuring and ties up with all the other good feedback about Laserworld.

    They pointed out that the visible difference between 100mW and 300mW was not going to be great and that you start to require ever increasing power to show significant visible difference. I'm aware of this but had expected at least some difference. However, at this point any sense of difference is purely subjective, so i will refrain from commenting until i know a bit more, or have tried them out back to back in a smoky room as buffo suggested.
    Ohh NO there is difference between 100mw and 300mw. And it's very visible. And besides that why are you paying for infrared?. Filter no filter. Who cares Price is set for 300mw@532nm and not for 200mw@1064nm+100mw@532nm.
    I hired an Italian guy to do my wires. Now they look like spaghetti!

  9. #19
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    I'm no expect, but couldn’t you make a cheap output power meter by unfocusing the laser to a large spot and pointing it at a solar panel?

    Granted it wouldn’t be very accurate, but it should show a difference between 100mW and 300mW.

  10. #20
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    Hi Norty,

    I haven't followed this post very closely, because it is so long and unweildy. Nevertheless, I can give you a few points.

    First, I really try my hardest not to say bad things about people or companies. But in the case of Laserworld, lets just say they don't seem to have the best of reputations. We had some unpleasant dealings with them (putting it mildly) and, although I won't say anything bad -- especially in a public forum -- you might call up Dirk Baur at MediaLas and just mention the name Laserworld and see if Dirk will tell you more...

    Second, it could very well be that the "300mW" laser will put out 300mW, but only under the best of conditions.

    Try this: Put a constant +5V on the modulation line (i.e. the input -- sometimes called "blanking input", but this isn't really good terminoloty) and let the laser run for 5 minutes. Then project your images side-by-side and see if it looks brighter than your 100mW. If it does, then there's you answer. If it doesn't, then you will need to investigate it further, or simply just return the laser.

    OK, so lets talk about "if it does". Well, this means that the particular laser you have just doesn't tolerate modulation very well. Remember, the scientists at CREOL flat out said that DPSS lasers couldn't be modulated directly. Well, they were wrong to the extent that they can or can't, but lasers made by some manufacturers seem to tolerate direct modulation better than others. So, if you get a laser from a different manufacturer, you will most CERTAINLY get different results. Better results? Well, you have to test a lot of lasers before you find a good one... Others on this forum can give you some good practical advice about which ones seem to work out well.

    OK, only one last comment. In a private message to me, you mentioned that you measured the color signals coming out of the FB3 and you read xxx voltage. I'll be as gentle as I can here . Sorry but... you can't measure color signals with a meter. Color signals are pulsed waveforms, and a meter will, at best, give you the average voltage. You need a scope to measure the voltages coming out of color lines, not a meter.

    Also, putting "just a point" into the drawing window will NOT give you a constant, unchanging 5V signal -- well, not from our software anyway... Our software does certain things "behind your back", and you will just have to trust that we know what we are doing, and the things that we do are for your own good . And no, I won't comment on what we do or why, because we don't want our competitors to understand what we are doing or why .

    Best regards,

    William Benner

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