Official... Vista is totally Cr*p

[Jem]

Shit, bugger, arseholes, piss, cock, fart

Sorry about that bit I just HAD to vent my anger somewhere ... Oh, and can I just add that these are entirely my own personal opinions and experiences with Windows Vista, I don't want to recive a lawsuit from MS for calling their product Crap

I thought I would try to install LD2000 onto my Dell Laptop running Windows Vista. This would be useful for me as I could use the Vista machine in my house whilst leaving my XP laptop packed up ready for gigs.

I installed everything in order and tried to start the LD2000 program. It would not start and gave me some error messages about installing the drivers through the add new hardware wizard.

I downloaded the Vista drivers from the Pangolin website and installed these as per the instructions. I then re-started the program and got a blue screen of death with the message...

IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL

Stop: 0x0000000A / 0x898DC88F, 0x00000000, 0x00000000, 0x820B699F

There were various other bits of unimportant text as well. I tried re-booting the machine (takes ages) and went through the same process a few more times before finally giving up. I guess there'll also be a memory dump in a file somewhere but I can't be arsed to look for it as it will be absolutely meaningless to me

This is pretty much the final straw of trying to run any type of Laser software under Vista. I've also had problems trying to install the modem that was supplied as part of the SMStoLaser package, and also with other third party software.

Everything works fine on XP Pro, so I guess i'll stick with that from now on. This should serve as a warning to anyone thinking of upgrading their computer systems to Vista. My advice would be DON'T DO IT !!

Sorry for the rant, it's just that i've wasted hours and hours trying to get various bits of laser software to work (all the stuff works fine on XP). I've also spent countless hours on the telephone to various tech support guys in various countries, all to no avail

All I know is that i'm now finished with trying to install anything to do with lasers on Vista. I think it will end up in the bin along with Windows ME and Windows 2000.

Just a thought... If no-one else is suffering from these problems I guess it could be Dell's fault and an incompatibility problem with their hardware, in which case I apologise to MS for blaming Vista

Cheers

Jem

[carmangary]

Unfortunately that is the way it goes with new OS versions. But, you can't really blame Microsoft. They can't help it if you try to install bad drivers. Sounds to me like it is Pangolin problem.

[Jem]

Unfortunately that is the way it goes with new OS versions. But, you can't really blame Microsoft. They can't help it if you try to install bad drivers. Sounds to me like it is Pangolin problem.

Ahhh... but that's exactly the problem... Pangolin say it's not their problem and say that their software works perfectly and this is one of the reasons they're moving away from MS development tools.

I guess it's just one of those things, I do agree (now i've calmed down a bit) that it's not totally Microsoft's problem. However, it's someone's problem and nobody wants to accept responsibility.

Take for instance the SMStoLaser Modem drivers. Pangolin say it's not their problem as everything works fine on XP etc. The modem manufacturers MultiTech were quite helpful until they had sent me some updated drivers that didn't work, they now don't know what the problem is and despite numerous further emails haven't replied with any further help. Microsoft obviously can't offer any solutions to third party application problems. Dell say it's not their problem... So, here am I with stuff that won't work and no-one will accept responsibility

The only solution I have is to stick with XP where I know everything works!

Cheers

Jem

[stanwax]

How long has vista been out - getting on for a year....Isnt it funny then that Microsoft are still selling XP. I am providing it with all PCs I build and can still buy it now, with SP3 included from the major computer supply companies here in the UK. I think that says it all. If MS were 100% happy and commited to Vista then why would they continue to sell thier 'old' product.
Its like going to a Ford dealer to buy a new Mondeo and them saying you can still by the old one cos the new ones a bit rubbish at the moment until we sort out all the faults.
I wont touch Vista with a barge pole, until I can no longer buy XP.
Rob

[Banthai]

Jem said ...

it's someone's problem and nobody wants to accept responsibility.

Its my problem,.... and i will accept responsability for it

to correct the problem, send all your "Pango Kit" back to me and i will do a service upgrade exchange to "Alphalite Pro" which "may" work under Vista.

Glad to be of assistance ..... Karl

[carmangary]

The reason MS is still selling XP is because there are a lot of software companies without manpower or desire to worry with development and testing on Vista. We are still only developing for XP and earlier where I work. It has nothing to do with problems with Vista but because we don't have the manpower/budget to worry with another OS until absolutely necessary. The whole mess is a bit of a chicken and egg problem. But, if everyone had the attitude that they wouldn't upgrade due to fear of the next OS we would still be using Win95. Everyone said they would stay on 95 until they were forced to go to Win98. Then they said the same about Win2K, and then WinXP, and now Vista. In 2010 when the next OS comes out people will say that they won't move from Vista because it works just fine for them.

[fluff]

The ONLY reason Microsoft still sell XP is there is still a market for it . They still ship it because of end user pressure on the pc manufacturers and software retailers.

I sell pc's to control laser systems and lighting . All are supplied with XP . These are usually dell machines, but even pc world reintroduced XP , due to continued demand. My customers are not interested in Vista and neither am I ! Too risky .

New doesn't mean better IMHO

Fluff

[carmangary]

Hi, your Dell machines are made only a few miles from my house. Not that it matters. I just thought I would throw that out there. When i order stuff from Dell I always use the slowest and cheapest delivery method and always get it the next day. One time I ordered something in the morning and got it the same day. LOL.

[Pangolin]

Hi Jem,

I would never go as far to say that something isn't our problem. If a customer is having problems, then, on some level, it is our problem.

However, I will second your statement that VISTA is totally crap. We have only two computers running VISTA. One is to test LD2000 with VISTA. And the second -- Ian is using, mostly with Microsoft software, to do business applications and accounting etc. To give you an idea how much VISTA sucks, the other day Ian put a note on my desk, asking if he can "upgrade" his computer to XP...

Microsoft hit a home run with XP. They hit an absolute bunt with VISTA. VISTA sucks, period. Microsoft has broken tens of thousands of applications with this version.

Also, even for SDKs that we use, for example, an MMS SDK. There is a problem with VISTA, and the vendor has told us that they have NO PLANS to make it work with VISTA!!! (And this is the single biggest vendor of MMS-related tools in the industry.)

As far as I know, and as far as we are able to tell, we have worked out all of the problems with VISTA and our software. In fact, I can confidently say that our software works better with VISTA than QuickBooks!!!

But Jem, for you, I would say one of two things. Either use XP, or if you could, send your VISTA computer to us and we will figure out what's going on and solve the problem.

But as an asside, what I tell people is that they will generally be happier in life if they are not running VISTA. So sure, our SMS and laser software runs fine with VISTA, but what about everything else? Just because we can solve all of the problems with VISTA for our software, doesn't mean that you will still have a happy life with VISTA. Even running the VISTA version of Windows Explorer drives me batty...

I think the problem is that all of the old, smart, dudes and Microsoft have either retired, or been fired in favor of less costly, young dudes. The problem with young dudes is that they say "hey, I've got an idea". But the problem is, often times, their ideas don't take into account all of the software that must continue working, just as it has for the past 25 years. When the old, smart dudes are there, they can veto (or shape) the "great idea" of the young dudes. But if the old dudes are all gone, then we have a situation where the inmates are running the assylum.

I can say the same thing about Microsoft development tools. New versions are just flat-out incompatible with old versions. IDIOTS!!

I can also say confidently that people can still run laser frames and shows that were created for the 1986 version of Pangolin LSD, even on our latest version of software. Bottom line -- compatibility is damned important to us, and it should be important for all software authors.

Best regards,

William Benner

[Jem]

Hey Bill

Thanks for your kind offer... but I have to be honest and say it's just not worth me sending my Vista laptop to you. It would be nice to know what the problem is and to see if you could solve it, but i'm sure you've got better things to do than sort this problem out .

The answer to this problem is right there in front of my face, and i've already said it... Everything works absolutely fine under Windows XP!

So, from now on XP it is. As previously stated i've spent hours and hours trying to solve all these problems. I've even had some far superior brains on the job and even they've given up trying to make things work.

Bill, I apologise if you got the impression I wasn't happy when I said that no-one would accept responsibility, but i'm sure you can understand my frustration. Your software/hardware works brilliantly under XP so that's where i'll continue to use it.

Karl... Thanks for the offer of upgrading to Alphalite, but on this occasion i've decided to decline your most kind offer

Cheers

Jem