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Thread: Official... Vista is totally Cr*p

  1. #21
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    Mark;

    There was way more to it than that. Microsoft *knew* that people didn't like Vista, but they wanted people to upgrade anyway. They *intentionally* (and prematurely) pulled the plug on XP for new machine sales. Dell, HP, Gateway, and several other computer manufacturers agreed to only offer Vista on their machines, much to the chagrin of their customers. (In fact, even Dell only agreed after much wrangling, and the threat of loosing their coveted status as a Vista-certified supplier.)

    It took over 6 months of constant complaints by customers before Microsoft reversed their position and allowed these companies to offer XP for "mission critical" machines. Once word got out, you had people calling the Dell server center trying to order a desktop, just because that was one way you could get XP instead of Vista.

    These days it's gotten better, as Microsoft has finally realized that 1) Vista has issues, and 2) *many* users still prefer XP. (And not just system admins, but ordinary folks as well.) So now it is possible to find a few new machines with XP. But they're still rare, and often you have to ask for it specifically. (Many Dell models, for example, are still available with Vista only. They typically have just a single line in a given category that ships with XP, and it's usually a lower end model.)

    It's not *just* about profit. It's about Microsoft wanting to control the direction of the dominant desktop OS. If you think about it, the development cost for XP is paid for. So XP sales are pure profit, minus the cost to stamp the disc. They should be selling XP like crazy! But XP lacks some features that Microsoft *wants* to put on your desktop, whether you want them there or not. Thus Vista was born.

    Granted, they charge more for Vista sales, so you might think there is a greater profit margin there, but Vista is saddled with huge development costs that eat into the profit. So the whole "it's all about market forces" is really not true in this case.

    If you follow the tech news scene, you'll see that Microsoft only reluctantly brought XP back after extreme pressure was applied by the user base. There was a *lot* more to this story than just maximizing profits.

    Adam

  2. #22
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    If you follow the tech news scene, you'll see that Microsoft only reluctantly brought XP back after extreme pressure was applied by the user base. There was a *lot* more to this story than just maximizing profits.

    Adam


    This was exactly my point . Custmers forced a product to be reintroduced. That is market forces.

    Maximizing profits isn't what I was refering to . Minimising potential losses due to a migration to other products would be more accurate. Either way , it's still about the bottom line.

    Long, medium or short term OS strategy is still about profits , it's just the time frame that differs.

    It also makes more sense to retain a customers than have to win them back from another OS supplier.

    IMHO

    Fluff
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by buffo View Post
    Mark;


    These days it's gotten better, as Microsoft has finally realized that 1) Vista has issues, and 2) *many* users still prefer XP. (And not just system admins, but ordinary folks as well.) So now it is possible to find a few new machines with XP. But they're still rare, and often you have to ask for it specifically. (Many Dell models, for example, are still available with Vista only. They typically have just a single line in a given category that ships with XP, and it's usually a lower end model.)


    Adam
    Just to add , my new laptop , that I'm using now , was shipped to me last week pre-laoded with XP . It's a Dell Precision 6300 , not a low end model. All the laptops on the Dell uk site have the XP option, to my knowledge. Not sure about desktops , but I have five Dell desktops less than a year old , all shipped with XP as standard.

    Regards

    Fluff
    The light at the end of the tunnel. Its' a white laser.
    www.rocknite.co.uk

  4. #24
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    I have had two Vista experiences. One bad and one that is so far good.

    The first time I installed the Beta on my overclocking computer. Limited Edition DFI Venus motherboard, Opteron 165, 4 gigs of ram, 2x 7900GTs... A really nice machine. Vista couldn't reconize anything... not even the on board NICs. Ran like a Lamborgini with half it's cylinders blown... Had it on the computer all of two days. Luckily it was a dual boot.

    A few weeks ago I got a new Dell for the boss to use. It is mine, but I got it for her to use. It is an XPS420, and it came with Vista. Now I haven't done much with it, loaded Office 2003, aircard software... and that's about it. I haven't had any problems with it. It is a quad core with 3 gigs of RAM, so I had better not have any issues. I have yet to have slow even enter my mind while using it. The QM2000 is not it in though. I'll give Dell a call to see if I am allowed to pop it in there and see if it will run... for the sake of science.
    Love, peace, and grease,

    allthat... aka: aaron@pangolin

  5. #25
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    Hmmm... Apparently the Dell UK site has different options. Here on the US site, if you click on laptops for the home and office, you are presented with 3 main product lines - all with Vista. Down on the bottom of the page, there is a link if you are "looking for XP" that will take you to another set of machines. But you can't get all laptops with XP.

    But like I said - it's getting better. I just checked, and you can now order over half of their gaming machines (the XPS line) with either XP or Vista, so that's a plus. (That's a recent change, however. I looked right after C-mas for a friend of mine, and only the low end was available with XP.) Glad to see they're changing that though. (Aaron, looks like the XPS you bought was one of the ones that only came with Vista though.)

    I agree that Microsoft did finally cave to market pressure, but it sure took them long enough. Fortunately, it looks like XP will be available for a good while yet. And hopefully by the time I'm forced to upgrade to Vista, they'll have worked most of the bugs out of it. (That, or else I'll need to get even more comfortable with Mandriva!)

    Adam

  6. #26
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    Seems my Vista has no problems with the QM or LD2000. I just installed everything off the disk though. I forgot to go to Pangolin's site to look for anything Vista specific...

    I got the Dell from Best Buy. I didn't customize it at all. It is supposed to stay in the boss' office.

  7. #27
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    you run a qm32 on vista... I odnt think thats possible..it only runs on 95 or 98, not even xp ..i think... Bill?? Its ISA after all
    CREATIVITY AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT!
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  8. #28
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    Vista Service Pack 1 hit the web over the weekend.

    Gotta' wonder if that will improve any of the software backwards compatibility issues...
    RR

    Metrologic HeNe 3.3mw Modulated laser, 2 Radio Shack motors, and a broken mirror.
    1979.
    Sweet.....

  9. #29
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    Maybe. It fixed some compatibility issues that made IE7 crash on me.

    Also, try running the software in compatibility mode if you haven't already. And, there is always VirtualPC. I have a Virtual PC with WinXP on my Vista machine. I use it mainly for safe testing of stuff I download from the web but it can also be used to run stuff that only works under WinXP. Before I had my Vista SC101 from NetGear I had to install the drivers on the XP virtual machine and then create a shared drive. I could then connect to the shared drive on the Virtual XP machine from Vista to access my data. It was hokie but it worked.

  10. #30
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    This makes interesting reading...

    http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/inde...sid=12495&pn=1

    Jem
    Quote: "There is a theory which states that if ever, for any reason, anyone discovers what exactly the Universe is for and why it is here it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another that states that this has already happened.”... Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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